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New US Airline Pilot Minimums: 1500 Total Hours  
User currently offlineatpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 14731 times:

Hi!

US Congress Senate/House (the two halves of Congress) agreed to raise the minimums to 1500 hours. I believe it will take 2-3 years after the bill is signed to go into effect, so that the industry has time to adjust.

This means that a brand new airline pilot, flying in the right seat as a First Officer, will need 1500 hours of flying experience.

Currently, the minimum in the US is a Commercial Pilot's License, which you can get for as little as 188 hours of total time.

Even the European countries don't require anywhere near 1500 hours for new First Officers!

cliff
LFW


TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 14658 times:

I hope they clearly define airline pilot. A pilot flyinh around an airnet Barron doing cargo runs or an f/o on an E110 cargo feeder flight should be able to have less and I think those are great methods to build time before going to the regionals.

The only thing is good luck trying to get someone with 1,500 flight hours to work for $17,000/ yr



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineatpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 14605 times:

I think that these new minimums will be for Part 121 airlines: Mesa, Great Lakes, Colgan, Pinnacle, Horizon, Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant, Compass, Delta, American, etc.

Yes, a 1500 hour guy will tend not to want to make the current starting regional salaries...some of them under $20K/year.



TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 14601 times:

It will be interesting to see if the US military, especially USAF, will up aviator bonuses and active duty service commitments if the airlines have to hire like that. After the current 10 year commitment most have well over 1500 hours, but now it would be a huge pay cut to jump from 100,000$ a year as a 10 year major with aviation bonus to starting F/O at a smaller airline. I presume we will get more details on this bill soon?


“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 14577 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
The only thing is good luck trying to get someone with 1,500 flight hours to work for $17,000/ yr

That's the first thing that came to mind. The impact could be quite large for the regionals.


User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 14576 times:

I would like to see a source please.

Cheers,
Anthony/Airport


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 14498 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 5):
I would like to see a source please.

Nothing has been passed yet, its still in the procedure stage. And seeing as its attached to the FAA re-authorization bill, its fair to say this may take forever to get passed (if ever).

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 14430 times:

How many hours did most regional airlines require to be hired?

User currently offlineatpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 14428 times:

Hi!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...line-pilots-flight-experience.html

"U.S. pilots would need at least 1,500 hours of flight experience to get a job in an airline cockpit, six times the current minimum requirement, under a House-Senate agreement disclosed by a passenger advocacy group.

The agreement, part of broader aviation legislation being negotiated in Congress, was outlined by Senator Jay Rockefeller to relatives of victims in a fatal crash near Buffalo, New York, last year,...

The senator (Rockerfeller) believes legislation funding the Federal Aviation Administration, which includes the requirement, “is ready and he is hopeful that the bill will be considered this week,” she said. The West Virginia Democrat heads the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.
...
A 1,500-hour minimum exceeds the 800 hours approved by the Senate in March as part of $34.6 billion legislation to fund the Federal Aviation Administration. The House in October 2009 approved a 1,500-hour minimum in its version of the legislation.

The Air Transport Association, the Washington trade group for major U.S. carriers, told House lawmakers in a letter before their vote that carriers were concerned the requirement would result in “unnecessary and artificial barriers” for qualified pilots and reduce the applicant pool for carriers.

Congressional talks on the FAA bill accelerated last week in anticipation negotiations could be completed this week.
... "

cliff
LFW



TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 14423 times:

Quoting atpcliff (Reply 8):

Great, happens right when I'm starting flight school to become an airline pilot haha


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 14418 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 6):
And seeing as its attached to the FAA re-authorization bill, its fair to say this may take forever to get passed (if ever).

I somehow think it will pass, unfortunately for us low timers. Total knee jerk reaction IMO.

The retards in congress don't seem to grasp that the problem with the Colgan pilots was that they were OVERWORKED, not inexperienced or improperly trained. And sure, the captain had a few busted check rides but that's not uncommon.

I'd like to know how they plan to get more pilots considering nobody finishes flight school with over 300 hours. And just WHERE are those guys going to get 1500hrs from? CFIing? right... its pretty much impossible to find a flying job right now having less than 500hrs logged, even so a few years ago when the economy was somewhat better.

The only good thing that may come of this is that an actual pilot shortage MAY possibly become a reality, and then airlines would have to really raise their working standards and pay.

Quoting atpcliff (Reply 8):

The Air Transport Association, the Washington trade group for major U.S. carriers, told House lawmakers in a letter before their vote that carriers were concerned the requirement would result in “unnecessary and artificial barriers” for qualified pilots and reduce the applicant pool for carriers.

No shit Sherlock.   

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 9):
Great, happens right when I'm starting flight school to become an airline pilot haha

Yeah, good luck with that.

[Edited 2010-07-22 15:17:54]

User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 14398 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):

I somehow think it will pass, unfortunately for us low timers. Total knee jerk reaction IMO.

Nope, there is too much other junk in the FAA bill to deal with. Specifically the UPS vs FedEx union issue. Couple that with it being an election year, and if this thing doesn't pass within the next 4 weeks, its probably dead.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
The only good thing that may come of this is that an actual pilot shortage MAY possibly become a reality, and then airlines would have to really raise their working standards and pay.

Nope, I'd almost say the airlines want this whole thing to happen, so that they can go to the MCPL concept. They'd love that, because then they'd really lower pay.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
And just WHERE are those guys going to get 1500hrs from? CFIing? right... its pretty much impossible to find a flying job right now having less than 500hrs logged, even so a few years ago when the economy was somewhat better.

You would be surprised at the job market. In the saturated market of Daytona, I've been able to pull 2 CFI job interviews within the past week, at reputable schools, with very little dual given time. Its all about being in the right place, at the right time.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 14396 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):

You would be surprised at the job market.

Well, I know everybody from CFI class is jobless. The few friends that I have with flying jobs only got them because they got hired before the "depression", and they hate their jobs and get paid peanuts. As for me, I got a minor gig as chief pilot of sorts for a starting charter company, and I can't even get to fly, and get paid major peanuts, but it will have to do for now.

[Edited 2010-07-22 15:38:06]

User currently offlineatpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 14390 times:

The US Air Force guys typically go right into a major airline (Delta/United) higher paying job. Sometimes they do go to a low-paying regional (I did, but that is not normal). Also, over 50% of the new USAF pilots this year are starting with RPVs (Remotely Piloted Vehicles), and not "real" airplanes.

There are no "Typical" minimums for US regional airlines. They vary a lot by airline, and they vary over time. Previously, many required an ATP. In the 2008 timeframe, many were hiring guys with less than 200 hours, or without a Commercial License. Today, Colgan Airlines, one of the lower-paying "Regional" airlines, has minimums of 1000/100 and no more than two previous failed checkrides (1000 total time/100 multiengine total time).



TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
User currently offlinecv640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 14389 times:

Hopefully this will pass soon. Its about time to get some more experience back into the cockpit. Regionals will have issues, but they'll adopt. 10 years ago it took 2000 hours to get on and 20 years ago it was 2500-3000.

Instructing, 135, and the corporate ways to move up the ranks will return. Good to hear.

I know a few people with low time are complaining, but if they'd asked anyone in the industry, they'd have been told this had to happen. The past few years were getting very dangerous in the regionals.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6908 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 14377 times:

Interesting that every time Congress passes a new regulation in response to an event, the bill that they pass would not have affected the incident that they were responding to. Didn't both pilots on the Colgan flight have over 2000 hours?


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 14370 times:

Quoting cv640 (Reply 14):
The past few years were getting very dangerous in the regionals.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to say it, but that's complete BS.

The past decade has been the safest in aviation history EVER.

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2010-02-18-01.aspx

That's but just one source.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 15):
Interesting that every time Congress passes a new regulation in response to an event, the bill that they pass would not have affected the incident that they were responding to

Sad but true.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 15):
Didn't both pilots on the Colgan flight have over 2000 hours?

I think the FO was just shy of that.

Much more info on the accident, Colgan, and the bill and industry in general here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1528 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 14358 times:

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 9):
Great, happens right when I'm starting flight school to become an airline pilot haha

It doesn't seem like it now, but long term I think you will benefit from this legislation if it goes through.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
its pretty much impossible to find a flying job right now having less than 500hrs logged,

Don't feel bad. I've got 5000 and can't find a job.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Nope, there is too much other junk in the FAA bill to deal with. Specifically the UPS vs FedEx union issue

Oberstar dropped that deal.

This is legislation that has excellent potential to benefit the pilot profession. If regional airlines are competing for the same new pilots as corporate and 135 companies, they will be forced to pay more. In turn, we may see more flying go back to the majors where it belongs.


User currently offlineDAL7e7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 14358 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Quoting dl767captain (Reply 9):
Great, happens right when I'm starting flight school to become an airline pilot haha

Yeah, good luck with that.

Why do people constantly knock other people that are pursing flying jobs!? Not to hijack the thread, and I understand that the market is down, but seriously people. I'm pursuing my dream, which is to fly, and all I hear is "Oh, you're wasting your time. You won't get a job." Its called hard work people. People in-tune with the real world understand that they aren't going to get out of flight school and have a myriad of corporations begging for them to fly their Citation X's all across the globe. Yeah, we all get it. Market's down, furloughs, saturated aviation sector as a whole, but it's bordering on ridiculous the amount of people that make smart-assed comments every time I mention that I'm going to school to be a pilot. It actually offends me when people make comments like that. Seriously.

Now, back on topic.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
The retards in congress don't seem to grasp that the problem with the Colgan pilots was that they were OVERWORKED, not inexperienced or improperly trained. And sure, the captain had a few busted check rides but that's not uncommon.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Whether you're a SF340 FO or a 744 Captain, being in the condition the Colgan FO was in is NEVER acceptable in the cockpit. Not to mention the reasons for her missing work. I understand a missed work policy, but one so strict that the people in charge of 50 other souls is sick and not properly prepared for the flight?

I think that Congress and the FAA need to stop looking at individuals and start reviewing the companies and their policies.

War Eagle!
DAL7e7



DAL7e7 is wondering... Do pilots take crash courses?
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 14335 times:

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 17):
This is legislation that has excellent potential to benefit the pilot profession. If regional airlines are competing for the same new pilots as corporate and 135 companies, they will be forced to pay more. In turn, we may see more flying go back to the majors where it belongs.

Its a temporary solution for a long term problem. Its as simple as supply and demand. Sure, they'll pull the demand curve way up, but eventually, they supply curve will return to where it is today. And the pilot pay issue will continue to be argued about for years. The whole pilot industry is about getting yours and pulling the ladder up behind you. Until there is some way to change how a pilot is promoted other than on a seniority based system, it will continue to be that way. The numbers of hours and years in aviation don't tell the whole story, yet they manage to run the show.


-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 14334 times:

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 17):
It doesn't seem like it now, but long term I think you will benefit from this legislation if it goes through.

Really? how so? just curious

Quoting DAL7e7 (Reply 18):

Why do people constantly knock other people that are pursing flying jobs!? Not to hijack the thread, and I understand that the market is down, but seriously people. I'm pursuing my dream, which is to fly, and all I hear is "Oh, you're wasting your time. You won't get a job." Its called hard work people. People in-tune with the real world understand that they aren't going to get out of flight school and have a myriad of corporations begging for them to fly their Citation X's all across the globe. Yeah, we all get it. Market's down, furloughs, saturated aviation sector as a whole, but it's bordering on ridiculous the amount of people that make smart-assed comments every time I mention that I'm going to school to be a pilot. It actually offends me when people make comments like that. Seriously.

I know! The amount of people who ask me what I want to do and I tell them that I want to be an airline pilot and they try to talk me out of it. The only people who have ever encouraged me to fly are other pilots i've talked to (although they have cautioned me). It's always been my dream job, sure it has risks, but I could either sit in an office all day and watch a jet fly by and wish that's where I was, or I can be in the cockpit knowing it's where I belong.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 14321 times:

Quoting DAL7e7 (Reply 18):
It actually offends me when people make comments like that. Seriously.


Well maybe instead of dismissing people who have actually been through flight training and are already dumped into the real world, you may want to listen carefully to them.

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 20):
It's always been my dream job, sure it has risks, but I could either sit in an office all day and watch a jet fly by and wish that's where I was, or I can be in the cockpit knowing it's where I belong.

And I'll have you guys know I was feeling just as optimistic when I started training, and I probably would've been pissed if somebody had said what I said earlier. But things are very VERY different once your thrown into the real world.

A couple of years from now we'll see how you guys end up. Don't get me wrong, I genuinely wish you the best, however, once you get your ass handed to the "real" world after college/flight school, you'll have a swift change of heart. Mark my words.

[Edited 2010-07-22 17:37:49]

User currently offlineDAL7e7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 14304 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 21):

Way to jump ahead of yourself...

I've had a small taste of the real aviation world bud, and it blows, I'm aware. But I'm still optimistic. If you really would like to know how, just PM me. A public forum is not a place I want to post my life's story.

[Edited 2010-07-22 17:48:46]


DAL7e7 is wondering... Do pilots take crash courses?
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6908 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 14299 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 16):

I think the FO was just shy of that.

But I do recall she was well over 1500 hours.
To the point under discussion, the fact remains that far more people would like to fly than there are paying jobs to accommodate. Hence they get away with paying miserable salaries and still fill the seats. The fundamental problem is that it is very difficult to weed out the pilots who will not perform well under pressure (such as the Colgan captain); it really comes down to the chief pilot and personnel manager having the skills to tell which ones they shouldn't hire. No regulations will really solve this, and as long as humans are humans some bad ones will slip through.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 14289 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 23):
But I do recall she was well over 1500 hours.

Found it, from wiki:

Quote:

First Officer Rebecca Lynne Shaw, age 24, of Maple Valley, Washington,was hired by Colgan in January 2008, and had flown 2,200 hours, 772 of them on the Q400.

So she was actually a bit over from what I remembered.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 23):

To the point under discussion, the fact remains that far more people would like to fly than there are paying jobs to accommodate. Hence they get away with paying miserable salaries and still fill the seats.

Agreed. Not too sure how you could fix that short off "eliminating" everybody with shiny jet syndrome or making a massive nationwide strike on all regionals.


25 cv640 : I flew for the regionals from 1999 to early 2007 and saw things first hand. Technology and luck are what were the biggest source of safety. I'm sorry
26 DiamondFlyer : I've heard this thrown around a bunch from a whole bunch of guys. I'm not sure what you can do to fix that? Its not like the people up north are flyi
27 DashTrash : I disagree. This legislation will add a significant barrier to entering the profession. Right now it's way too easy (was way too easy in 2007, not so
28 cv640 : Sorry Dash Trash, I don't know why it quoted you, it was an earlier post I was trying to quote. Who do you fly the dash for anyways? It was always one
29 chrisjw : Because instructing, tour operators, skydivers, pipe line inspection, and traffic watch give you sooo much instrument time and experience in ice. The
30 JBirdAV8r : No one, NO ONE, makes fun of good old-fashioned hard work. But you're living in a dream world if you think "working harder than others" is going to l
31 Post contains images Mir : There are plenty of 1500 hour guys who are jumping at the bit to take the current regional starting salaries. All this will do is develop the PFJ 135
32 DashTrash : You're still gaining experience. You need to scare yourself a few times and learn from it before you fly an airliner. You just don't have enough time
33 cv640 : I did all the above, minus the skydivers before I got my first freight job and then moved to the part 121 world. Getting time in ice was rare, flew s
34 bjorn14 : Well there are reasons there are significant barriers to enter some professions. You don't want someone with an IQ of 90 getting their M.D. from Bill
35 Post contains images DashTrash : Where's you sense of adventure?
36 413X3 : Please name a major accident with a regional or legacy airline that was a direct result of low time pilots. Very dangerous if you are counting the hi
37 413X3 : quite honestly this is the worst way to build up experience. Just think about fly alone, you are not that smart with weather and some of the advanced
38 DashTrash : Most have been a result of low experience pilots. Pinnacle and Colgan were a combination of inexperience and poor judgement along with fatigue. Comai
39 413X3 : Again I can't think of one crash where anyone in the cockpit had less than 1500 hours. So I'm still not sure exactly how you can justify this law, it
40 DashTrash : You're correct that nothing has been done about the poor working conditions at regionals. Much of that will have to be addressed by individual pilot
41 etherealsky : True, but I think the point that 413X3's trying to make is that experience should not be directly equated to hours logged, and that's where this legi
42 DashTrash : There's a lot of truth in your post. There is such a thing as quality of time.
43 lowrider : True, but you can't legislate that. You can only hope someone catches enough of it during the required time.
44 413X3 : But to me, quality of time means learning from experienced pilots. Not sitting around learning on the fly, you don't learn well under pressure and str
45 iairallie : This is stupid. Where are these pilots supposed to build that kind of time. There are a limited number of time building jobs available and if you incr
46 DashTrash : Until the last 5 years, nearly everyone who went to a regional had 1500 + hours. You built it up banner towing, sitting right seat in a freighter or c
47 DiamondFlyer : Dash, that's fine, and I understand what your saying but here's the facts from those of us who are on the bottom looking up. There aren't nearly enoug
48 Fly2HMO : My thoughts exactly, word for word. The only realistic and somewhat sizeable job market I see in the future for low time pilots is flight instructing
49 DashTrash : Wasn't aware of that, and I've heard about the PFJ guys where you buy your endorsement. I can't say I've ever heard of a union stance on PFT. I'm a f
50 DiamondFlyer : Its very easy to develop bad habits in the instrument flight world, when all people do is their minimum 6 approaches every 6 months. I've seen people
51 GoBoeing : It's not kneejerk reaction at all. Overworked, okay, yeah they are overworked but not on the day they flew. She was flying sick and he was flying clu
52 etherealsky : Nobody 's arguing this... I think we can all agree that the factors you mentioned above caused the accident. The thing is, lack of hours was not one
53 DashTrash : If you have poor instrument skills, you'll have them in the airline world as well, and likely to wash out of training. I've said it numerous times. T
54 lowrider : There is a good amount of 2 pilot 135 freight out there. It just occurs in aircraft such as Lears, Falcons, Bandits, and Shorts, or at companies who
55 DiamondFlyer : Sure, it helps, but the arguments are that new pilots don't know how to handle flying in challenging weather conditions, icing, dodging thunderstorms
56 GoBoeing : I agree, that's what I mean by it not being the only solution but it is a very good step in the right direction. Well, that scenario which you agree
57 etherealsky : True, but as I posted before, why should 1500 hours be the magic number? Again, I agree that TT less than 500 hours is probably too low, but from the
58 GoBoeing : Why should it be the magic number for the ATP in the first place? ew Why should 35/40 hours be the magic number for the private? 1500 is just the num
59 DiamondFlyer : Its not just DPE's that are a joke. A vast majority of the 141 schools with self examining authority (which is dumb, IMO) are just as bad as the DPE'
60 DashTrash : Now that's bullshit. Many of us have been trying to raise pay and quality of life in the regionals for years with little to no success for numerous r
61 flymia : This is just a dumb idea and will hurt the regionals a lot. Who is going to fly their planes is what I am thinking?? If pilots in europe can fly aroun
62 GoBoeing : Should pilot supply effect safety in a negative manner? Are you aware of the differences in training between the USA and Europe? Even if they were eq
63 GoBoeing : Raising the minimums from 200 to 1500 hours improves the safety of airline operations.
64 Post contains images etherealsky : You can always learn something from others; regardless of whether they are doing things well or not-so-well. Don't forget there's a difference betwee
65 DiamondFlyer : Just as raising those minimums again to 10,000 hours would. At some point, more than just hours has to be considered when deciding if a person can sa
66 flymia : I still think 1500 hours is too high. Also I am not sure the airlines can afford to pay their pilots much more. More but not a lot. I think 800 hours
67 Post contains links GoBoeing : Good news from today; hopefully tomorrow seals the deal: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010...tion-Safety.html?_r=1&ref=aponline
68 DashTrash : Ticket prices may need to come up. Most of us who have been through one or more rounds of concessions feel as though we've been subsidizing low fares
69 Post contains links atpcliff : Hi! House and Senate just approved...now on to Obama. Details: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-5900 If I interpreted the above
70 DashTrash : Looks like the puppy mills are still safe. Humpty Diddle / UND got their language in there to allow low time guys to continue getting hired. It will b
71 flymia : Well it will be interesting to see how many hours you can get. I doubt it will be a lot lets say maybe 100 hours? Still 1400 hours is not low time at
72 MSJYOP28Apilot : I wonder how many hours students will be mandated to have of multi-engine and "difficult operations conditions"? How will students log and obtain "dif
73 DiamondFlyer : It's not going to hurt 135 operators much. Very few out there run with 2 pilots, and those that do probably have pilots who meet the new 121 requirem
74 thegreatRDU : As with anything these bureaucrats pass theirs ways around this...what are the options? Good there's hope...details please...
75 AKviator : "d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be
76 Fly2HMO : The "credit" better be somewhere around a couple of hundred hours otherwise it will be worthless.
77 AKviator : The way I understand it, the credit for graduating one of these approved programs would supplement the pilot's flight time, qualifying them for hire
78 Fly2HMO : It seems a bit optimistic IMO but if it ends up being that much I just may stop whining. I'm also assuming it will only account towards IF you're app
79 flymia : If they made that the case then the airlines would have no one to hire but military pilots. If you raised CFI restrictions how are people going to ga
80 bjorn14 : How will this affect Part 135 ops?
81 DiamondFlyer : So, the airline passengers are safe, but who cares what happens when we put tons of instructors out there who don't really want to teach. I don't rea
82 DashTrash : I don't see much changing in that department. I know of several guys who enjoy teaching, but none who want to make a career out of it. Do you know of
83 flymia : Who wants to really teach? Obviously everyone who is a CFI loves aviation so most people love giving knownledge about something they love as we do on
84 DiamondFlyer : My point exactly. Let them build it some other way, and let those who really want to teach do so. If it raises costs, so be it. Clearly the 1500 hour
85 N6238P : I'll be honest I'm 50/50 how I feel about this bill. I'm one of these fresh out of college CFI's looking for employment to build time. However I get m
86 atpcliff : Hi! Currently, the mins for the FAA Commercial license are 250 hrs, reducable to about 188 for the Part 141 flight schools. With Congress establishing
87 DiamondFlyer : Of which a large portion can be FTD time. I've heard of people who got it at around 145-150 hours of flight time, plus the associated FTD time to get
88 DashTrash : Seems like you're forgetting who a flight instructor works for. If I am paying someone to teach me to fly, they work for me. If they aren't doing the
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