Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Open Panel On Side Of A320 During Taxi?  
User currently offlinejfktpa119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 16 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7518 times:

Once I was waiting for my flight at KTPA and watched a B6 A320 push back with open panel on the right rear side on the aircraft. I figured one of the ramp agents would see it and close it. When the aircraft the taxied away I thought maybe I should even say something to the gate agent. In fear I might embarass myself I didn't, and I forgot about it till I saw this picture today with the same panel door open.
Can someone explain to me what it is. Thanks!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Konstantin Bashmakov - RuSpotters Team



[Edited 2010-08-13 08:47:16 by ManuCH]

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinespeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7518 times:

I think that's an outflow valve for a/c and pressurisation.

User currently offlineetarsa From Netherlands, joined Feb 2010, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7461 times:

This is an outflow valve to regulate the cabin pressurization. All modern a/c have the cabin under pressure to make it possible to fly like 30.000ft and have the same comfort as at a maximum of 8 or 9.000 ft but not higher.
Flying with a cabin altitude higher than 9.000 ft does not feel comfortable and makes people sick.



L1011,B707/E3A,DC10,KDC10,DC9,YS11,F27,70,100,B737,747-2/3/400,757,767,777-200/300,A319/320/330/380,MD11,CRJ,DHC8
User currently offlineaogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7399 times:

Glad you asked your question.

Just to add my two cents, the pressure in the aircraft is controlled and regulated not by how much air is pumped in, but how much is allowed to escape via the outflow valve(s). I haven't worked the A320 myself, but I'm assuming that like most other aircraft, there exists another, secondary outflow valve that you weren't able to see. Except for during maintenance, these two valves will always be open on the ground. The valves disprove the myth that if there is a "hole" in the airplane, everyone onboard will be violently sucked thru the small opening. Hollywood is certainly more exciting than reality.  


User currently offlinejfktpa119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7083 times:

Quoting etarsa (Reply 2):
This is an outflow valve to regulate the cabin pressurization.

It looks like a door thats open that doesn't seem aerodynamic (if you look at it largely). Does it close before take off?


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5564 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7040 times:

Quoting jfktpa119 (Thread starter):
When the aircraft the taxied away I thought maybe I should even say something to the gate agent. In fear I might embarass myself I didn't

I've gotten more than a couple of calls on the radio about a gate agent reporting an open panel, only for it to be that. I've also gotten one where the potable water door was left often. Granted, it's not a huge deal, as anything left open that would compromise the safety of flight would set off bells and whistles in the flight deck, but it never hurts to let someone know.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinebri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Quoting jfktpa119 (Reply 4):
Does it close before take off?

Not necessarily before, but shortly after as the plane climbs and the cabin begins to be pressurized. Lots of other threads nearby about how pressurization and outflow valves work.



Position and hold
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 3):
I haven't worked the A320 myself, but I'm assuming that like most other aircraft, there exists another, secondary outflow valve that you weren't able to see.

There is no secondary outflow valve on the A-320. It has underpressure and overpressure relief valves on the aft pressure bulkhead (which is, of course, invisible outside the aircraft.)

Quoting jfktpa119 (Reply 4):
It looks like a door thats open that doesn't seem aerodynamic (if you look at it largely). Does it close before take off?

It's open on the ground until the thrust levers are advanced for takeoff, at which point it starts to drive closed pressurizing the cabin at -500FPM until a PSID of 0.1 is reached. This eliminates the big pressure bump on liftoff like on some older aircraft.

It may look like it's not aerodynamic, but like every other piece of the aircraft it is optimized with great thought.


User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6816 times:

Quoting jfktpa119 (Reply 4):

It looks like a door thats open that doesn't seem aerodynamic (if you look at it largely). Does it close before take off?

Can't say for the 320, but on many types, such valves (like the Super 80's "dinner plate"), don't close all the way until the AC literally passes through the alt. the cabin is pressurized to...


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6681 times:

Now this is an open panel...this is the rampers communications panel, their is probably a nickname for it...I'm sure the entire flight was conducted with this open as a week before when I was shooting Pix @ JFK, the tower contact our Port Authority vehicle about a CRJ crew complaining of an exterior noise outside their cockpit. they were in a CRJ exactly like the one in the photo...They were positioned behind an Air China 747/400. The same access door was open and flapping in the 747's exhaust stream. My driver would not take the responsibility to get out and close it, (as he shouldn't) the crew of the CRJ emphatically agreed to allow me to get out and close it for them, as we communicated to (ground/tower) that was talking to the CRJ crew that I was also a pilot and mechanic and that I would take on the enormous responsibility to go over to the aircraft and close it. Both crew gave the enthusiastic, thumbs up...and the two Hartwell latches were successfully closed! A week later I was going through some of my images and saw this shot w/ the same access panel open. I have noticed that on Gulfstreams they actually have an aerodynamic vane on the inside of the same access panel in case it is left open, it will stay in one position and not flap around in flight.
open access door


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6676 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

May seem trivial but an open panel can be one of the links in the accident chain.... take a look at this...

Galaxy Airlines L-188 at Reno.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA85AA010&rpt=fi



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6666 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 10):

Apparently so...What is an L-188, an Electra?...I once remembered watching a Delta L-1011 pushing back at JFK one day when I was young. The fueler never closed the underwing refueling door which was quite large. I was pounding on the 1" thick glass in the terminal window to get the rampers attention but to avail. As he later was walking back to his post I started to jump up and down to get his attention...he saw me and I pointed to the plane, he did see the open door and they ran him up a baggage conveyer to close the cover. Makes you wonder how many times you have flown when something was not right...   


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6633 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 11):
Apparently so...What is an L-188, an Electra?...

Yes sir, this one as a matter of fact....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerard Helmer



I was handling L-188s from a number of companies (Zantop, Interstate, Cam Air, and Galaxy among others) at the time. We always double checked the doors after the Reno accident. Galaxy lost it's certificate not long after - odd company, one of the flight engineers was the CEO. Capts were routinely getting their judgement questioned by the guy at the FE panel...



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 12):

Conni Kalitta used to have a ramp full of them, whatever did he do with them?.I remember in the begining it did not take much to bring one down as the angle of incidence of the wing was off some 2 degrees or something like that. They had a habit of breaking up. Fast aircraft though. For a prop driven aircraft they look pretty good as well...g


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6435 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
I remember in the begining it did not take much to bring one down as the angle of incidence of the wing was off some 2 degrees or something like that. They had a habit of breaking up.

This sounds like the "whirl mode" problem Electras had early on. At certain airspeeds the props would excite the wing structure to flutter and eventually self destruct. Braniff & Northwest both lost Electras this way IIRC. Beefed up structure changed the frequency, problem solved.



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6281 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 9):

The B737 Communication access panel can get forgotten to be closed but is Hinged to aling in the slipstream to reduce drag.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6219 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):

Roger that...Same MD-80, I have a shot of one of them open as well.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5725 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 9):
Now this is an open panel...this is the rampers communications panel, their is probably a nickname for it...I'm sure the entire flight was conducted with this open as a week before when I was shooting Pix @ JFK, the tower contact our Port Authority vehicle about a CRJ crew complaining of an exterior noise outside their cockpit. they were in a CRJ exactly like the one in the photo...They were positioned behind an Air China 747/400. The same access door was open and flapping in the 747's exhaust stream. My driver would not take the responsibility to get out and close it, (as he shouldn't) the crew of the CRJ emphatically agreed to allow me to get out and close it for them, as we communicated to (ground/tower) that was talking to the CRJ crew that I was also a pilot and mechanic and that I would take on the enormous responsibility to go over to the aircraft and close it. Both crew gave the enthusiastic, thumbs up...and the two Hartwell latches were successfully closed! A week later I was going through some of my images and saw this shot w/ the same access panel open. I have noticed that on Gulfstreams they actually have an aerodynamic vane on the inside of the same access panel in case it is left open, it will stay in one position and not flap around in flight.

Quite lame of Canadair to design it hinged at the bottom... what were they thinking?
On our 737s, every panel I can think of (on classics, this includes forward lav access, com box, aft lav access, potable water service, and hell-hole door) are either forward hinged, or such a location as to where the wind will blow them shut. Not an ideal situation, mind you, but better than having it flap up and down until it flaps itself into an engine inlet.
Come to think of it, the 737-NGs are the same way...

Anyhow, as far as the aerodynamics of outflow valves go, they have been redesigned in recent years to have this panel protruding down at the forward edge of the cutout. This design creates a localized area of low pressure behind the forward panel, which helps ensure reliable flow rate, should the aircraft enter unusual flight modes.
Previously, Boeing simply used a rotating, rectangular plate that disappeared into the fuselage cavity.
I realize that's a lame explanation, but I can't do much better without drawing a picture!!


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5951 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 17):
but better than having it flap up and down until it flaps itself into an engine inlet.

My thoughts exactly...one of these would chew up a fan real badly...My guess is the axis of the hinge has a least been positioned so that during flight a positive load is on the panel at all times...just a hypothesis...


User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 861 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5532 times:

I was once sitting in the United terminal at ORD and a 733 taxied in and parked in front of me. The comms panel was not only open, but had the headset cable still attached, now dragging along the ground. There was a junction box or connector on the end of it, presumably what the ground crew plugged the headset into.

Attention soon turned to the wing root, which the junction box had been impacting. I could see the dents from the gate lounge.

Regards - musang


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5383 times:

Quoting musang (Reply 19):
I was once sitting in the United terminal at ORD and a 733 taxied in and parked in front of me. The comms panel was not only open, but had the headset cable still attached,

With the Cable attached is really rare.Unless the person wa using those detachable plug in Head sets which add up as Ear defenders.

Why don't people just double check their work.

regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFLY2TUS From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

This is another example of what can happen if panels are left open. These were found on my walk-around after an arrival from MCI. We think they were left open by MX in MCI...






Ready. Set. Jet.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Open Panel On Side Of A320 During Taxi?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
The Panel On The Side Of This 767-What Is It? posted Sat Jun 5 2010 08:54:45 by c5load
What Is The Vent On The Side Of This DC-10? posted Tue Jun 1 2010 19:18:58 by Gulfstream650
Intake On The Side Of DC-8s Noses? posted Mon Mar 1 2010 12:31:20 by 747400sp
Thrust Reversers Open During Taxi posted Fri Jul 18 2008 07:49:09 by Bruin787
Weird Sounds During Taxi On Airbus Widebodies? posted Thu Jun 21 2007 01:29:58 by SW733
So Who Actually Works In Tech Side Of Aviation? posted Sat Jul 24 2010 12:54:22 by mmedford
ERJ145 "Hairdryer" Noise During Taxi posted Thu Jul 22 2010 09:24:52 by CMH
Why Did Spoilers REmain Deployed During Taxi posted Fri May 14 2010 13:45:04 by TranStar
What's That On Top Of JAL 744 Fuselage? posted Sun Nov 1 2009 14:18:48 by RIX
What Is This Connection On Exterior Of 757? posted Sat Oct 24 2009 21:12:02 by RobK

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format