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BA Cockpit Crew Takes Off Using Less Runway  
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6458 posts, RR: 32
Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3687 times:
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http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4306396f&opt=0

I chose to post this on these forum because on the civil av one it would have turned into a :

1) An A vs B bashing feast
2) Personal attacks on the crew
3) Armchair piloting

I have some questions regarding this incident:

1) First of all, why would a trained, professional BA crew choose to take off on an intersection on an airport that is already one with a short runway. Granted, sea level, light load, but still? If you have the whole runway, why choose to take-off from an intersection?
2) Can a Captain overrride an airport tower and actually suggest from where it would be more convenient for them to take-off? Does he have that authority?
3) Does BA pressure its crews so much on schedule keeping that BA Captains end up doing this type of thing?
4) I once saw an AR 747-SP take off from an intersection at MEX. It was the flight bound for LIM, so it might have been light. Trusting my memory, I would say that intersection was at the end of what in the late 80´s was the end of the international gates.

I do not intend to judge the captain. The real reason I want to learn about this is because it does seem a very strange incident to me. In that context, was the captain:

1)Negligent
2)Irresponsible
3)Suffering from get-there-itis
4)BA OPS and Scheduling pressure
5) Error tunnel vision

Again, I do not want to bash any company or crew member. This report simply seems very interesting to me and I wanted to find out as much info as possible and in this site, it can only be done in this forum. I appreciate any contributions.

Regards., AR385

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinecovert From Ghana, joined Oct 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
2) Can a Captain overrride an airport tower and actually suggest from where it would be more convenient for them to take-off? Does he have that authority?

I won't address the other questions, because that would define speculation, but yes a pilot may request an intersection departure, which in this case they did, and it was approved. Also, not sure of the source, but evidently taxiway A is also approved by the company, BA for departure use. Unfortunately, however, due to lack of signage and other factors the aircrew mistook taxiway B for A. ATC also apparently saw them at the wrong intersection and failed to react as well.

Fortunately the aircraft became airborne, however their T/O was calculated assuming 1900+ meters available. That means that their V1 was calculated using that runway length, and had they had to RTO, they would likely be eating grass.

And there could be many reasons for selecting an intersection departure, and in this case we don't know why, only that they were lucky.



thank goodness for TCAS !
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21796 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
1) First of all, why would a trained, professional BA crew choose to take off on an intersection on an airport that is already one with a short runway. Granted, sea level, light load, but still? If you have the whole runway, why choose to take-off from an intersection?

It can mean a shorter taxi, which is always nice. However, it should be noted that departures from that intersection weren't authorized by BA (due to the length). One has to figure that the captain did not intentionally disregard that restriction (which would mean that the FO would be disregarding it as well), which means that they most likely thought they were somewhere else on the airport.

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
2) Can a Captain overrride an airport tower and actually suggest from where it would be more convenient for them to take-off? Does he have that authority?

No. They can request an intersection, but the tower does not have to give it to them.

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
3) Does BA pressure its crews so much on schedule keeping that BA Captains end up doing this type of thing?

Very doubtful.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCentre From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

by reading the title alone, I thought the passengers who warned the crew were A.net members!!


I have cut 4 times, and it's still short.
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

Quoting covert (Reply 1):
I won't address the other questions, because that would define speculation, but yes a pilot may request an intersection departure, which in this case they did, and it was approved.

In this case it was a mistake by the crew since they did not request an intersection B departure, somehow they goofed and departed from the wrong intersection.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...lt-777-take-off-after-taxiing.html

Quoting Flight International:
Despite specifically requesting a departure from 'A', the aircraft mistakenly taxied instead for the 'B' intersection, near the runway's midpoint, leaving available take-off distance of just 1,220m (4,000ft).


I always get a window seat and pay attention during takeoff and if I'd been on this flight I would've been scared sh*tless if we'd rotated on the numbers and barely cleared the end of the runway.


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

I'm not sure what your question really is......the intersection at A was approved as requested so yes you can do that. The T/O was made from B which was done in error and could have been a disaster. It appears to have been a case of loss of SA.

User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2270 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3255 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Please discuss this topic here Passengers Attempt To Halt BA 777 Takeoff... (by JoeCanuck Sep 1 2010 in Civil Aviation)

NZ1


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