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Good Info On ''basic Six''  
User currently offlineMauriceB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

Hi all,

Im working on a project for school, designing an uniform cockpit, and its mostly concentrated around the basic-six. There is a lot of info to be found on I-net, but so little in books and stuff. Since I-net isn't that thrustfull and our cockpit is being examined by professionals, i really do need the thrust-worthy info.

Now my subject is the Direction Indicator (DG) and i would like as much as tech info, but also how it really works. We are probably working with the traditional systems (gyrocompass) but any info on the lasercompass in welcome as well!


Thnx

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4510 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
and its mostly concentrated around the basic-six.

Huh? I'm assuming your talking about what we call over here the "six-pack" or "steam gauge" panels.

For starters, Wiki has a pretty decent article on the DG, they are rather simple in concept so you'd be hard pressed to find anything more detailed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heading_indicator

And here's the official FAA explanation on all instruments, a bit more detailed:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/a.../media/PHAK%20-%20Chapter%2007.pdf

[Edited 2010-09-05 14:27:13]

User currently offlineThirtyEcho From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Just be careful where you put stuff. The attitude indicator, for example, should be centered right in front of the pilot at the top of the panel. There are many photos of six pack panels here on anet.

User currently offlineMauriceB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4194 times:

Thnx guys, the FAA link is very usefull, though we aren't permitted to use Wiki, since its not accurate and anyone is able to post what they wan't... And we need to make a cockpit that could really work, so we cant have flaw's in anything.


As for the instruments, its really called ''basic-six'' even KL calls it the basic-six in theire official manuals!  


Anyway thanks!


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4184 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 3):
since its not accurate and anyone is able to post what they wan't..

Most of the best and most accurate articles I've ever encountered on Wiki are aviation related. The "article vandals" target articles on Lady Gaga, religion and such, not the technical stuff, that's too boring for them.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 3):
its really called ''basic-six'' even KL calls it the basic-six in theire official manuals!

Well that's just KL, however as I said, that's not what their called this side of the world. Even the FAA book I linked to mentions them as "six pack". Just sayin'


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

After you finish the project, please post the schematic here on anet. I am sure that if there are any flaws in your work there are any number of people here who can set you aright. Bear in mind that there have been minor changes in the basic six arrangement over the years.

User currently offlineKELPkid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

Cessna (before about 1968 or so) used to think that basic flight instruments belonged wherever they fit and looked the most stylish on the instrument panel    Seriously, I almost bought a 1963 172C model, but between the hodge podge instrument panel, lack of shoulder harnesses, and the venturi vacuum system (with no possibility of upgrading to a vacuum pump, because the particular Continental O-300 used in the C model doesn't even have the vacuum pump mount pad on the accessory drive), I passed this one up, as I wanted to get my instrument.

Seriously, I think there was a time at Cessna where panels were designed so that they looked really good on Sky King on TV...


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):

Seriously, I think there was a time at Cessna where panels were designed so that they looked really good on Sky King on TV...

That can be said of pretty much any GA plane from before the 70's. If you think the early Cessna were bad check out a '60s Mooney M20, now that's confusing as hell.


User currently offlinejetlagged From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
Well that's just KL, however as I said, that's not what their called this side of the world. Even the FAA book I linked to mentions them as "six pack". Just sayin'

It may be widely known as the six pack now, but I suspect the slang "six pack" (of beer) is more recent than the layout of the basic six. I know a retired test pilot who was involved in developing the layout and I haven't heard him call it a six pack.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

Quoting jetlagged (Reply 8):

It may be widely known as the six pack now, but I suspect the slang "six pack" (of beer) is more recent than the layout of the basic six. I know a retired test pilot who was involved in developing the layout and I haven't heard him call it a six pack.

I also get the feeling that outside of the US it's rarely known as a six pack anyways.


User currently offlinejetlagged From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 9):
I also get the feeling that outside of the US it's rarely known as a six pack anyways.

The pilot I mentioned is an American.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting jetlagged (Reply 10):
The pilot I mentioned is an American.

My point still stands, I do recall reading foreign aviation literature where it is mentioned differently, if translated literally at least.


User currently offlineKELPkid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

Quoting jetlagged (Reply 8):
It may be widely known as the six pack now, but I suspect the slang "six pack" (of beer) is more recent than the layout of the basic six. I know a retired test pilot who was involved in developing the layout and I haven't heard him call it a six pack.

There's another cultural reference to the "six pack" here, too: Chrysler, in the late 1960's, had a very sucessful NASCAR engine (based on the Hemi V8) that had three two-barrel carburetors as the air intakes. Well, the top of the engine had six air intakes (all going through a central air filter). When you removed the air filter, you saw six holes (tuned intake runners, actually) underneath, and, naturally enough, that particular intake setup (which was available to the consumer as an option on the high-end Hemi engines) was called the "six pack"  


User currently offlineGST From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
Quoting MauriceB (Reply 3):
since its not accurate and anyone is able to post what they wan't..

Most of the best and most accurate articles I've ever encountered on Wiki are aviation related. The "article vandals" target articles on Lady Gaga, religion and such, not the technical stuff, that's too boring for them.

If you really don't trust technical Wikipedia articles (even though they are generally too dull with too low traffic for people to want to mess with), or are unable to cite wiki articles, trawl through the cited sources at the bottom of the relevant wiki articles, you will usually find all the information you need there from reputable sources.



Also what do you mean a "uniform cockpit"? Are you just designing the panel, or are you doing everything from positioning the pilots seat, controls, straps etc? Is it being stylised at all?


User currently offlinePGNCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 9):
I also get the feeling that outside of the US it's rarely known as a six pack anyways.
Quoting jetlagged (Reply 10):
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 9):
I also get the feeling that outside of the US it's rarely known as a six pack anyways.

The pilot I mentioned is an American.

I think the term must be slang in certain (primarily US) circles, and I think it's far from the norm even inside the US. I certainly have never used it, and I can't recall ever being around someone else who does.

Regardless of whatever nomenclature you wish to use for it, I guess I am unclear what the goal of this assignment is. What is the application for and what is the definition of a uniform cockpit? What class of aircraft is this for? What's the point of the assignment, i.e. are you trying to redefine the instrumentation in a cockpit entirely, or are you trying to exclusively update and redefine a conventionally designed cockpit ignoring the obvious trend toward PFDs and NDs?

Given the number of high-powered brains working in this field, it's unlikely that the assignment will yield any breakthroughs, but before any of us (especially the professional pilots here) can give any insight to you, the project needs more explanation. What are you trying to do here, what is the scope of the assignment, what educational level is this for, and who are the commentators you are seeking (e.g. engineers or pilots)?


User currently offlinejetlagged From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 11):
My point still stands, I do recall reading foreign aviation literature where it is mentioned differently, if translated literally at least.

The slang term six pack is not just American though. Brits use it too (for beer and abs at least). So it isn't just Americans who might refer to the instrument layout that way. I guess I wanted to show that just because a slang term becomes widely used does not mean that term replaces the proper name.


User currently offline474218 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
There's another cultural reference to the "six pack" here, too: Chrysler, in the late 1960's, had a very sucessful NASCAR engine (based on the Hemi V8) that had three two-barrel carburetors as the air intakes. Well, the top of the engine had six air intakes (all going through a central air filter). When you removed the air filter, you saw six holes (tuned intake runners, actually) underneath, and, naturally enough, that particular intake setup (which was available to the consumer as an option on the high-end Hemi engines) was called the "six pack"


The Chrysler engines with three two barrel carburetors were known as "Six Pack" (Dodge) and "6-BBL" (Plymouth) and were available in 1969 through 1971 on the 440 cu in "wedge engines".

The 426 cu in "Hemi" engines had one 4 barrel carburetor when used in NASCAR and two 4 barrel carburetors when used for the street cars and drag racing.

Chrysler also offered the three two barrel carburetor set up was also offered on the 340 engines in 1970 Barracuda and Challenger so they could be raced in the the Trans Am series.

Pontiac, Chevy and Ford also offered three two set ups on their engines in the 1960's. The most famous would be the 389 tri-power in the GTO's.


User currently offlinePGNCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3438 times:

Quoting jetlagged (Reply 15):
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 11):
My point still stands, I do recall reading foreign aviation literature where it is mentioned differently, if translated literally at least.

The slang term six pack is not just American though. Brits use it too (for beer and abs at least). So it isn't just Americans who might refer to the instrument layout that way. I guess I wanted to show that just because a slang term becomes widely used does not mean that term replaces the proper name.

Thank you jetlagged; I agree wholeheartedly. I don't know anyone who uses the term personally, nor do I know if it is common throughout the world or is isolated to certain areas, but clear communication and proper nomenclature are important, especially when a slang term is far from universal.


User currently offlinemauriceb From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

It has been a while since i posted it, but i quited my school so i won't be able to post the project on A.net. I got a chance at the pilot academy which has been my dream since i can talk.. thanks anyway!

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