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The Vacuum Toilet,who And When Pls.  
User currently onlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3222 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6398 times:

When was this toilet type first used on commercial aircraft and which aircraft had it first?


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDrfix2fly From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6307 times:

just guesing but the 767-200 is the oldest aircraft I have seen it on

User currently offlinetod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1724 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6086 times:

Quoting Drfix2fly (Reply 1):
just guesing but the 767-200 is the oldest aircraft I have seen it on

Correct

First flight 1981


User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5839 times:

Does anyone know why you need a strong vacuum toilet flush system and not just a water and gravity system on an aircraft?

User currently offlineGLEN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 221 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
Does anyone know why you need a strong vacuum toilet flush system and not just a water and gravity system on an aircraft?

To save the weight of the additional water you would have to transport for a water flush system.



"The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view." - Albert Einstein
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting GLEN (Reply 4):

To save the weight of the additional water you would have to transport for a water flush system.

A reduction in corrosion issues due leakage.
regds
MEL.



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User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5785 times:
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Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
Does anyone know why you need a strong vacuum toilet flush system and not just a water and gravity system on an aircraft?

Flexibility in lav placement.



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User currently offlineMender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5762 times:

As ZANL said plus, it removes the odour everytime you flush.

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8506 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5743 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
Does anyone know why you need a strong vacuum toilet flush system and not just a water and gravity system on an aircraft?

Not only do you gain flexibility in the cabin but it also reduces the number of holding tanks which saves weight and is faster to service on the ground.


User currently offlineMender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5683 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
Does anyone know why you need a strong vacuum toilet flush system and not just a water and gravity system on an aircraft?

How would you get a gravity system to work if you are climbing or descending?

You need a good vacuum to draw solid matter the full length of the aircraft. (If the vacuum was weaker not all the waste would make its way to the tanks and over time would block the pipes)

Once the aircraft is at altitude they use cabin differential pressure . On the ground they use a vacuum pump.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5491 times:

From what I was told, it was ultimately due to weight. My instructor but himself through flight school working cabin service and lavs and he would always say "on the older planes you had to deal with the first class shit and coach shit. Belive me, there is no difference in smell"


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

Is the term Gravity System or Recirculating system?
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Is the term Gravity System or Recirculating system?
regds

"Gravity system" is not an appropriate term.
Recirc might be, but I do know there were two design philosophies in the blue-water systems, the one we're used to, and the design employed by Lockheed on the L-1011. I forget all the details, but as I recall, blue juice was stored in one or two locations, and ducted to each lavatory on demand. Compared to the traditional setup, where you've got a tank of blue goo under each toilet seat.

Vacuum lavs are a tremendous improvement for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is RELIABILITY. Especially at altitude, the system is basically infallible, unless you get a toilet base valve that won't close, and then you're in trouble.
But other than that, you're counting on the outside air pressure doing all the work for you- and that's pretty reliable!

Not to mention, blue water pump impellers? Do you REALLY have any desire to work on those? Trust me- not pleasant.


User currently onlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3222 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 4 days ago) and read 4867 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):

Okay, the toilet base valve won't close, what problems flow from that?
I guess the Lav is out of bounds, will it just keep sucking for the rest of the flight?



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2540 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Actually the biggest problem in my book is the valve will not open or a plugged tube. They both have the same school of brown trout. I would much rather change a valve that is stuck open.

User currently offlineMender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 4754 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13):
Okay, the toilet base valve won't close, what problems flow from that?
I guess the Lav is out of bounds, will it just keep sucking for the rest of the flight?

If the base valve is stuck open then you will not be able to generate a decent vacuum on that line. There are generally two main vacuum lines on the 767 so potentially half the toilets will be affected. Luckily I've managed to avoid working on the toilets on the 737NG but this might effect all of them!


User currently offlinevc-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3700 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4682 times:
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Quoting Mender (Reply 15):
If the base valve is stuck open then you will not be able to generate a decent vacuum on that line.

A more immediate problem is the noise in the cabin for the pax sitting around the affected lav. We ACARS the crew if that happens to wrap an orange in a blanket and place that in the bowl. The open valve is then plugged.

Other probs with Vac Lavs are blockages in the main line to the tanks. On our 747's there are some sharp bends in the pipes where thay go round the cargo door lift actuators. If pax have managed to put a nappy, a hand towl down the loo or the CC have put wine bottle corks and other stuff down there guess where all the stuff gets caught up. Then some lucky individual has to break down the pipes to find and extract the blockage

On the A340 system the main problem are the liquid level sensors in the tank. If they get contaminated by not being rinsed properly during toilet servicing they sense tank full, even though the tank may be empty, and shut down all the toilets that supply that tank. This problem can be overridden by pulling a few CB's, but it means if the toilet tank does subsequently become full the tank will overflow and you are left with skid marks on tail of ther aicraft where the vacuum outlets are


User currently onlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3222 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

Quoting vc-10 (Reply 16):

WOW, thanks for all the info, it really is a whole different world down there.
Just one flush and you think its all gone.  



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinetod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1724 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

Quoting vc-10 (Reply 16):
On our 747's there are some sharp bends in the pipes where thay go round the cargo door lift actuators.

Forward cargo door?
Retrofit lav/waste tube installation?
That area can be a pain, but it can be designed to function OK.
Not former SAA 744 are they?

Tod


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