Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Speed Bug Setting On 727  
User currently offlineOli From France, joined Jun 2005, 24 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

Hi,

I would like to know how the speed bugs will be set up on a 727 for take off and landing.
I believe this depends on airlines.

Thanks in advance for your input on this.

Have a nice day,

Olivier

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 895 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

It's been a long while, but...

Starting with the weight and flap setting, we simply read from a chart or used flip-cards with V1, Vr and V2. These cards also had the clean (flaps retracted) speeds, too.

The flap setting was sometimes dictated by the runway length.

It was a simple process, but an important one.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

it's been a number of years since I flew the 727 so someone current may be a better source but I'll start off with what I remember. For T/O set V1, Vr & V2, all flap and slat retract speeds and 250kts. I think 250kts was the orange "knobbed" bug. Maybe V2 was a double bug. Cruise, we set high & low mach buffet speeds and cruise mach was the orange "knobbed" bug . Approach , Vref, Vapp (orange "knobbed" bug) and 250kts,

User currently offlineOli From France, joined Jun 2005, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

Hi,

Thanks for your answer - I should have been more specific.
I know, that, for take off, you will set V1, V2 and VR, but what about the two others? (one for beginning of flap retraction and the other for clean config?).

On approach, I know that one will be VREF, one for first flap engage (0 to 2) but what about the others?

Thanks!

Olivier


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5432 times:

Yeah, I forgot that, on app you would set min clean and slat & flap ext speeds as well. Other than that I think my post is correct. On T/O min clean would be slat retract speed.

User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

Some (most) B727 aircraft have only one airspeed bug, which is usually orange in color, and....

is set at V2 for takeoff
and,
Vref for landing.

Pilots are then expected to know what the other applicable speeds are, and fly accordingly....instead of having an airspeed indicator looking like a porkupine, with multiple airspeed bugs.

NB.
The L1011 is much the same, only one orange bug....whereas, a few airlines will add a couple of white bugs on the instrument external ring, for added clarity.
Ours does not...one bug only.


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Quoting 411A (Reply 5):
a couple of white bugs on the instrument external ring, for added clarity.

We had about 5 or 6 white ones with 2 that "faced" each other to pair as a double bug.


User currently offlineVmcavmcg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 6):
We had about 5 or 6 white ones with 2 that "faced" each other to pair as a double bug

Boy, I really have to dust off the cobwebs for this. My last 727 flight was in 1990!

Like CosmicCruiser, we had a "marked bug" on the outer edge of the airspeed bezel. We had either 4 or 5 other white bugs plus the orange bug in the airspeed indicator. The "marked bug was set to V2 then a a bug for V1 and another for Vr, so on the 727 they were normally set right next to each other. We had another bug set at Vzf and another for 250. On takeoff you climbed at V2+10 until 800' and then lowered the nose to 9 degrees and accelerated. When the airspeed bug was 1/3 of the way to Vzf you retracted Flays to 5, at 2/3 Flaps 2 and approaching Vzf, flaps to 0.

On approach Vref was the marked bug, another bug was Vref+5 another was Vzf and another was 250 and a final bug at 80 knots.

But, each operator had their own bug system some had no bigs on the outside of the bezel. For as many operators there were I am sure there were as many systems.


User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

And here you go! I just happened to take this pic yesterday. Speeds are bugged for I think about 165,000 pound takeoff, can't remember. Clockwise from the 130kts is V1, V2, Flaps 5 maneuvering speed, Flaps 2 m/s and Clean m/s.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4556 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Nice to see you flying at 727 speed there.



.86 is very comfortable in that aircraft.



Bit noisy though !



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 9):
Nice to see you flying at 727 speed there.

.86 is very comfortable in that aircraft.

Bit noisy though !

Yeah we were planned at .84 but it "crept up" for a few minutes . Good old NY Center decided to add what ended up being nearly 40 minutes of new routing on to our day. It was also my Friday so that may or may not have had anything to do with it. We have the eyebrows plugged on this one, it's a little quieter believe it or not, still kinda loud of course.

It's amazing how well these things do fast, anything under .80 it seems we are just wasting fuel.

Some airplanes have another white bug on the bezel in which case we bug the Flaps 25 maneuvering speed but it normally ends up being the left edge of the "salmon bug" of the V2 bug. It looks orange to me.

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 2):
Cruise, we set high & low mach buffet speeds and cruise mach was the orange "knobbed" bug . Approach , Vref, Vapp (orange "knobbed" bug) and 250kts,

I like the idea of bugging the Mach Buffet speeds, might bring that up!

On landing, we have the maneuvering speeds set, the orange bug is the VApp speed and the last bug which would be in the V1 position in the pic is the VTh(threshold) speed.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4556 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 10):

Yeah we were planned at .84 but it "crept up" for a few minutes . Good old NY Center decided to add what ended up being nearly 40 minutes of new routing on to our day. It was also my Friday so that may or may not have had anything to do with it. We have the eyebrows plugged on this one, it's a little quieter believe it or not, still kinda loud of course.

It's amazing how well these things do fast, anything under .80 it seems we are just wasting fuel.

Interesting, I didn't know you could plug the eyebrows on the 727 but it makes sense, same dimensions as the 737.



I never had a use for them except on rare occasions maneuvring in the pattern they just let in too much sun.



With a strong headwind, like many jets of its era I found I could consistently beat the flight plan fuel on a .8 flight plan with a .83-.84 cruise (less time spent flying into the wind) many Pilots would not believe it until they saw it.




The fastest Mach I have taken one too was .92. with the lower ZFW switch. She was,as you can imagine solid as a rock at that speed.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 10):
I like the idea of bugging the Mach Buffet speeds, might bring that up!

As a rule it isn't a big deal but every now and then you'd be suprised how close they got. Of course we flew -100s, -200s w/ -15 & -17 as well as a few Valsans so the mix was varied. Good luck!


User currently offlineN685FE From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

I'm pretty sure ours have five that clip to the outside plus the orange one built in, and I think two of the white ones have the notches on them. I think I have some in my toolbox, they are either for the DC10 or 727. It is always a good thing to have extra bugs in your toolbox, missing bugs usually wasn't found by the crew till it was almost time to block out. Saves a delay report.


psp. lead by example
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 12):
As a rule it isn't a big deal but every now and then you'd be suprised how close they got. Of course we flew -100s, -200s w/ -15 & -17 as well as a few Valsans so the mix was varied. Good luck!

Yeah it's in the back of your mind but it would be nice to know instead of having the FE scramble to get out his magnifying glass and find it on his desktop. Yeah, we have EVERYTHING on the desktop, no flip cards for us.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):

The fastest Mach I have taken one too was .92. with the lower ZFW switch. She was,as you can imagine solid as a rock at that speed.

I bet she was! Still an amazing design, I'd have no problem taking one out and doing it right now, even the 40 year old one we have. I've touched .88 but nothing higher than that.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4556 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

A true high speed design, B oeing tested it to .96 and then TWA decided to take it further and went supersonic with one.



She held together even when the gear was lowered to help regain control.



Not sure if they used that one again.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineN685FE From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
A true high speed design, B oeing tested it to .96 and then TWA decided to take it further and went supersonic with one.



She held together even when the gear was lowered to help regain control.



Not sure if they used that one again.

Is this the one your thinking of? I had thought it was Northwest.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19790404-0
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=37981&key=0

A photo close to the incident date.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mick Bajcar



Continued to fly pax then cargo.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ricardo Coppola



[Edited 2010-11-02 19:03:51]


psp. lead by example
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4556 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days ago) and read 4772 times:

Thanks 685, thats the one !




And not the only Boeing that has gone supersonic, I think it was China Airlines over the Pacific..



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days ago) and read 4768 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
A true high speed design, B oeing tested it to .96 and then TWA decided to take it further and went supersonic with one.

Yep, no one ever flew a 727 faster than Hoot Gibson!



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4556 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 18):

Yep, no one ever flew a 727 faster than Hoot Gibson!

Yeah,


He got to do it.


Once..



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Speed Bug Setting On 727
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
MIA Cargo Startup-Maintenance Co$ts On 727-200ADV? posted Tue Mar 2 2010 16:46:57 by Merlot
SQ 747-400: No Speed Brakes Deployed On Landing. posted Fri Aug 17 2007 02:22:13 by Qslinger
Why On 727 Re Engine With JT8 219 posted Tue Dec 12 2006 01:14:08 by 747400sp
Odd Paint On 727 Cockpit Window Frame - Why? posted Wed May 17 2006 04:24:27 by September11
RTO(Rejected Take Off) Setting On AutoBrake posted Sat Oct 29 2005 19:28:02 by Julesmusician
Strange Lights On 727 posted Wed Oct 26 2005 10:46:29 by Pilotaydin
Auto Speed Brake Actuator On B737 posted Mon Nov 15 2004 19:21:12 by MaerskMech
What Are "Speed Restrictions" On Initial Contact? posted Tue Jan 28 2003 22:44:43 by Mr Spaceman
Strange Looking Antenna On B-727? posted Fri Jan 11 2002 18:55:48 by Mr Spaceman
Speed Brake On The 737 NG posted Wed Jun 9 2010 00:11:15 by smartt1982
RTO(Rejected Take Off) Setting On AutoBrake posted Sat Oct 29 2005 19:28:02 by Julesmusician
Strange Lights On 727 posted Wed Oct 26 2005 10:46:29 by Pilotaydin
Auto Speed Brake Actuator On B737 posted Mon Nov 15 2004 19:21:12 by MaerskMech
What Are "Speed Restrictions" On Initial Contact? posted Tue Jan 28 2003 22:44:43 by Mr Spaceman
Strange Looking Antenna On B-727? posted Fri Jan 11 2002 18:55:48 by Mr Spaceman
Why The Bigger Intake On The Same 727? posted Sun Feb 27 2011 10:38:51 by c5load

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format