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Transporting Horses By Air - Strange Question  
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9434 times:

Occasional sightings of an "Equine Air Transport" 727 at ISP have gotten me thinking ... would not the inevitable and copious, ahem, liquid by-products of horse transport cause long-term damage to the aircraft? Hay or other absorbent materials will not soak up everything. Is something else used?


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12562 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9408 times:

I think they use sawdust ... a lot of sawdust. And hay as well. They may also need some sheeting under the hay; I don't know if the horse No1s are corrosive, but no airline wants to be the first to explain to an insurance company that their $100m cargo plane has to be written off because Dobbin had a wizz.

I saw a film about horses flying; it think it was on one of those Discovery Wings programs about air cargo; fascinating program.


User currently offlineivo From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9304 times:

Look at this for more info:

They use special stable-pallets etc.....

http://www.friesians4all.com/air_travel.htm

http://travelsentry.blogspot.com/200...world-class-equine-air-travel.html



Ivo


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4113 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9236 times:
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Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
would not the inevitable and copious, ahem, liquid by-products of horse transport cause long-term damage to the aircraft?

It is corrosive enough that it has damaged a Dubai Air Wing 747-200F dedicated to horse transport beyond economical repair, and it's not like it was in heavy use. It was reserved for the Dubai royal family's own horses and would sometimes sit weeks without flying.

Not that they cried much about the loss of their plane. They bought a used 744F to replace it, although I hear it will be made a little bit more horse-proof than the previous flying box.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5909 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9062 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
I think they use sawdust ... a lot of sawdust.

The airline I previously worked with abandoned sawdust after a competitor airline had an amusing problem (well, amusing to our airline, at least): the sawdust, once stamped upon by nervous horses, went airborne, and was ingested into the smoke detection system. From that point forward, the smoke detectors were signaling a main deck fire, emergency was declared, and a diversion carrier out. Once they figured out the situation, it required LOTS of time (cough cough... $$$) to clean out the smoke detection ductwork. This was on a classic 747, so there weren't any new-fangled digital smoke detectors located throughout the ceiling; no no, long ducts with detectors located remotely.

My carrier transported horses several times a month, and we never had an issue.

Quoting ivo (Reply 2):
They use special stable-pallets etc.....

Yep. They contain everything.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 3):
It is corrosive enough that it has damaged a Dubai Air Wing 747-200F dedicated to horse transport beyond economical repair, and it's not like it was in heavy use. It was reserved for the Dubai royal family's own horses and would sometimes sit weeks without flying.

Then the royal family should have spent some more money preventing this. There's no reason for it, with the above-mentioned horse pallets.


User currently offlinebrains From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8791 times:

My company flies horse charters on a fairly regular basis. Our 757s have an STC that allows them to carry stalls to contain the horses.
Our mechanics have a very specific procedure they must follow to prep the aircraft for the horses. Paper, plastic, carpet and sawdust are all involved. Surprisingly very little sawdust escapes the stalls. It only takes the mechanics a couple hours to remove the horse charter components, clean the aircraft and get it ready for cargo pallets.



Brains
User currently offline764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8761 times:

Well, you take the horses, put them in front of the aircraft and let them fly..... Oh wait, that's reindeer I am thinking of....

A number of years back I actually flew on a horse transport (high priced animals flying back from a competition in Europe). IIRC, Lufthansa was the carrier. They used specialized containers that had room for the horse and a compartment for an attendant (one per container). These containers used hay or sawdust, but that was probably more to keep the horses comfortable. Fluids were collected in a tank below the interior floor, just like human waste is collected in tanks on aircraft. Upon arrival, these tanks would simply be emptied. So the actual aircraft never got into contact with the animal or its "byproducts".


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8730 times:

LAN Cargo has over 50 years experience in successfully transporting a variety of live animals via cargo, ranging from bees, goats, horses, elephants, etc.
http://en.lancargo.com/services/live-animals/

Live Animals: Horse Containers:
http://en.lancargo.com/services/live...imals/containers/horse-containers/

ULD's for horse stalls:
http://en.lancargo.com/desktop/shipping-tools/uld/horse-stall/


User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1629 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

I fly the "Equine" transport 727, it's cleaned out after the last flight of the day and even during intermediate stops. Once a week I think it is it get's really broken down and cleaned good when it's busy. Yes it is a big deal as far as corrosion goes and there are certain parts of the plane that get a closer look during the heavier checks. Like everyone kind of said, there is plastic, then special mats and wood shavings. This plane was purchased specifically for the horses and it's a real nice machine, we like to take care of it!


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineboacvc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8173 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 8):
This plane was purchased specifically for the horses and it's a real nice machine, we like to take care of it!

How do the "pax" hold up to takeoffs and landings? Horses don't usually sleep sitting down - do they? And if they have a higher CG than humans, how do they handle turns, or is their a SOP for flying with animal pax so not to disorient them too much?



Up, up and Away!
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8170 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 8):
I fly the "Equine" transport 727

Have you been into FRG with that bird? I've shot them several times there, perhaps I caught you?



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinedispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8140 times:

Connie Kalitta had a horse B727 - N727CK.

I jumpseated on that aircraft from ORD to HUF way back 1994 or so I think. I remember climbing up the L1 boarding ladder the intense smell of horse shit that hit me like a wall from about 1/2 way up the ladder.

Riding in the JS directly behind the captain, I had 2 airvents blowing on my face, and it didnt help - the intense "aroma" was ever present.

Thankfully, it was just a 30 minute flight, but one of the few jumpseat flights I have taken where I was happier on the ground than in the air.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1629 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8047 times:

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 9):
How do the "pax" hold up to takeoffs and landings? Horses don't usually sleep sitting down - do they? And if they have a higher CG than humans, how do they handle turns, or is their a SOP for flying with animal pax so not to disorient them too much?

They seem to do fine standing. I really make it a point to be smooth in everything I do, safety first of course but it's usually not an issue. Standing in the back of a trailer going down a bumpy road is much worse than turbulence in almost all cases from what I have seen.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 10):

Have you been into FRG with that bird? I've shot them several times there, perhaps I caught you?

Sure have. That's one of the more challenging destinations for the 727.

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 11):


I jumpseated on that aircraft from ORD to HUF way back 1994 or so I think. I remember climbing up the L1 boarding ladder the intense smell of horse shit that hit me like a wall from about 1/2 way up the ladder.

It does get bad sometimes, most of the time it's not too bad. It's just a flying barn!



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8042 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 11):
N727CK

Wow...the most recent shot of it in the DB is from twelve years ago!

tb727, might you be in the YIP area around the Xmas holiday? I'd love to drive over and get some shots of it.



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1629 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8034 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 13):

Wow...the most recent shot of it in the DB is from twelve years ago!

tb727, might you be in the YIP area around the Xmas holiday? I'd love to drive over and get some shots of it.

Ahh 727CK is long gone, 725CK is the current one.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Tex-S...d=0e90651d66914b206dbef82e250f65fe



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8034 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting tb727 (Reply 14):

Ahhh, that would explain it. Thanks!



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8010 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 12):
Sure have. That's one of the more challenging destinations for the 727.

Cool...maybe our paths have crossed.

Here's N722CK blasting off Rwy 14 a couple of years ago - must have been empty.
http://www.moose135photography.com/Airplanes/Airliners-and-Airport-Spotting/Republic-Airport/JM20080715N722CK002/332541869_6gS8r-L-1.jpg

And the same a/c, using up most of Rwy 14 a couple of months earlier.
http://www.moose135photography.com/Airplanes/Airliners-and-Airport-Spotting/Republic-Airport/JM20080426N722CK004/285417607_U2hKR-L-2.jpg

http://www.moose135photography.com/Airplanes/Airliners-and-Airport-Spotting/Republic-Airport/JM20080117N720CK001/245211079_raSoQ-L-2.jpg

I've also shot 727 Horse Haulers from Kitty Hawk, N751US, and Express.net, N793A, in the past.

Quoting tb727 (Reply 14):
725CK is the current one.

I haven't seen that one yet, but a friend did shoot it at FRG earlier this year.

[Edited 2010-12-08 11:22:22]


KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3565 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7407 times:

KLM also has dedicated horse transport ULDs which I am guessing can only be used on the 747 Combi aircraft. In fact, I know there is at least 1 horse container sitting on the ground in YYZ near Vista Cargo IIRC.


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1629 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 16):
I haven't seen that one yet, but a friend did shoot it at FRG earlier this year.

Yeah 725 has a special paint job for the horse people, it looks really nice and it is a great airplane.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3151 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7271 times:

Now that I know who you fly for I can guarantee we've crossed paths if you've been flying for Connie more than 5 years. You probably signed more than a couple fuel tickets in STL that I handed you.

Do you guys have dedicated aircraft for horse missions or are they just special stalls? Last couple times I've been in SDF a 72 has been sitting on the ramp. I wonder why?  



DMI
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31692 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

http://www.moose135photography.com/Airplanes/Airliners-and-Airport-Spotting/Republic-Airport/JM20080117N720CK001/245211079_raSoQ-L-2.jpg
Whats this unit used for offloading the Main deck....Looks like a stepladder.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7130 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20):
Whats this unit used for offloading the Main deck....Looks like a stepladder.

Are you talking about the rear of the aircraft? That's the built-in air stairs that drop down from the rear of the fuselage.
The horses are walked down a ramp from the cargo door - it has solid sides on it. It is built on a truck chassis, and is driven up to the aircraft to off-load the horses.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
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