PROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5439 posts, RR: 5 Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6841 times:
Occasional sightings of an "Equine Air Transport" 727 at ISP have gotten me thinking ... would not the inevitable and copious, ahem, liquid by-products of horse transport cause long-term damage to the aircraft? Hay or other absorbent materials will not soak up everything. Is something else used?
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11958 posts, RR: 37 Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6813 times:
I think they use sawdust ... a lot of sawdust. And hay as well. They may also need some sheeting under the hay; I don't know if the horse No1s are corrosive, but no airline wants to be the first to explain to an insurance company that their $100m cargo plane has to be written off because Dobbin had a wizz.
I saw a film about horses flying; it think it was on one of those Discovery Wings programs about air cargo; fascinating program.
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3131 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6641 times:
Quoting PROSA (Thread starter): would not the inevitable and copious, ahem, liquid by-products of horse transport cause long-term damage to the aircraft?
It is corrosive enough that it has damaged a Dubai Air Wing 747-200F dedicated to horse transport beyond economical repair, and it's not like it was in heavy use. It was reserved for the Dubai royal family's own horses and would sometimes sit weeks without flying.
Not that they cried much about the loss of their plane. They bought a used 744F to replace it, although I hear it will be made a little bit more horse-proof than the previous flying box.
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5344 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6467 times:
Quoting kaitak (Reply 1): I think they use sawdust ... a lot of sawdust.
The airline I previously worked with abandoned sawdust after a competitor airline had an amusing problem (well, amusing to our airline, at least): the sawdust, once stamped upon by nervous horses, went airborne, and was ingested into the smoke detection system. From that point forward, the smoke detectors were signaling a main deck fire, emergency was declared, and a diversion carrier out. Once they figured out the situation, it required LOTS of time (cough cough... $$$) to clean out the smoke detection ductwork. This was on a classic 747, so there weren't any new-fangled digital smoke detectors located throughout the ceiling; no no, long ducts with detectors located remotely.
My carrier transported horses several times a month, and we never had an issue.
Quoting ivo (Reply 2): They use special stable-pallets etc.....
Yep. They contain everything.
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 3): It is corrosive enough that it has damaged a Dubai Air Wing 747-200F dedicated to horse transport beyond economical repair, and it's not like it was in heavy use. It was reserved for the Dubai royal family's own horses and would sometimes sit weeks without flying.
Then the royal family should have spent some more money preventing this. There's no reason for it, with the above-mentioned horse pallets.
brains From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 255 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6196 times:
My company flies horse charters on a fairly regular basis. Our 757s have an STC that allows them to carry stalls to contain the horses.
Our mechanics have a very specific procedure they must follow to prep the aircraft for the horses. Paper, plastic, carpet and sawdust are all involved. Surprisingly very little sawdust escapes the stalls. It only takes the mechanics a couple hours to remove the horse charter components, clean the aircraft and get it ready for cargo pallets.
764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 608 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6166 times:
Well, you take the horses, put them in front of the aircraft and let them fly..... Oh wait, that's reindeer I am thinking of....
A number of years back I actually flew on a horse transport (high priced animals flying back from a competition in Europe). IIRC, Lufthansa was the carrier. They used specialized containers that had room for the horse and a compartment for an attendant (one per container). These containers used hay or sawdust, but that was probably more to keep the horses comfortable. Fluids were collected in a tank below the interior floor, just like human waste is collected in tanks on aircraft. Upon arrival, these tanks would simply be emptied. So the actual aircraft never got into contact with the animal or its "byproducts".
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8273 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6135 times:
LAN Cargo has over 50 years experience in successfully transporting a variety of live animals via cargo, ranging from bees, goats, horses, elephants, etc. http://en.lancargo.com/services/live-animals/
tb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1375 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5921 times:
I fly the "Equine" transport 727, it's cleaned out after the last flight of the day and even during intermediate stops. Once a week I think it is it get's really broken down and cleaned good when it's busy. Yes it is a big deal as far as corrosion goes and there are certain parts of the plane that get a closer look during the heavier checks. Like everyone kind of said, there is plastic, then special mats and wood shavings. This plane was purchased specifically for the horses and it's a real nice machine, we like to take care of it!
boacvc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 516 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5578 times:
Quoting tb727 (Reply 8): This plane was purchased specifically for the horses and it's a real nice machine, we like to take care of it!
How do the "pax" hold up to takeoffs and landings? Horses don't usually sleep sitting down - do they? And if they have a higher CG than humans, how do they handle turns, or is their a SOP for flying with animal pax so not to disorient them too much?
moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2009 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5575 times:
Quoting tb727 (Reply 8): I fly the "Equine" transport 727
Have you been into FRG with that bird? I've shot them several times there, perhaps I caught you?
dispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1185 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5545 times:
Connie Kalitta had a horse B727 - N727CK.
I jumpseated on that aircraft from ORD to HUF way back 1994 or so I think. I remember climbing up the L1 boarding ladder the intense smell of horse shit that hit me like a wall from about 1/2 way up the ladder.
Riding in the JS directly behind the captain, I had 2 airvents blowing on my face, and it didnt help - the intense "aroma" was ever present.
Thankfully, it was just a 30 minute flight, but one of the few jumpseat flights I have taken where I was happier on the ground than in the air.
tb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1375 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5452 times:
Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 9): How do the "pax" hold up to takeoffs and landings? Horses don't usually sleep sitting down - do they? And if they have a higher CG than humans, how do they handle turns, or is their a SOP for flying with animal pax so not to disorient them too much?
They seem to do fine standing. I really make it a point to be smooth in everything I do, safety first of course but it's usually not an issue. Standing in the back of a trailer going down a bumpy road is much worse than turbulence in almost all cases from what I have seen.
Quoting moose135 (Reply 10):
Have you been into FRG with that bird? I've shot them several times there, perhaps I caught you?
Sure have. That's one of the more challenging destinations for the 727.
I jumpseated on that aircraft from ORD to HUF way back 1994 or so I think. I remember climbing up the L1 boarding ladder the intense smell of horse shit that hit me like a wall from about 1/2 way up the ladder.
It does get bad sometimes, most of the time it's not too bad. It's just a flying barn!
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5447 times:
tb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1375 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5439 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 13):
Wow...the most recent shot of it in the DB is from twelve years ago!
tb727, might you be in the YIP area around the Xmas holiday? I'd love to drive over and get some shots of it.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5439 times:
moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2009 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5415 times:
Quoting tb727 (Reply 12): Sure have. That's one of the more challenging destinations for the 727.
Cool...maybe our paths have crossed.
Here's N722CK blasting off Rwy 14 a couple of years ago - must have been empty.
And the same a/c, using up most of Rwy 14 a couple of months earlier.
I've also shot 727 Horse Haulers from Kitty Hawk, N751US, and Express.net, N793A, in the past.
JAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3321 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4812 times:
KLM also has dedicated horse transport ULDs which I am guessing can only be used on the 747 Combi aircraft. In fact, I know there is at least 1 horse container sitting on the ground in YYZ near Vista Cargo IIRC.
Supported the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3084 posts, RR: 12 Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4676 times:
Now that I know who you fly for I can guarantee we've crossed paths if you've been flying for Connie more than 5 years. You probably signed more than a couple fuel tickets in STL that I handed you.
Do you guys have dedicated aircraft for horse missions or are they just special stalls? Last couple times I've been in SDF a 72 has been sitting on the ramp. I wonder why?
moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2009 posts, RR: 12 Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4535 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20): Whats this unit used for offloading the Main deck....Looks like a stepladder.
Are you talking about the rear of the aircraft? That's the built-in air stairs that drop down from the rear of the fuselage.
The horses are walked down a ramp from the cargo door - it has solid sides on it. It is built on a truck chassis, and is driven up to the aircraft to off-load the horses.
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