Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Is The Certification Process?  
User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 914 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

I hope this is the right forum. I don't want my hand slapped again!

Since Boeing appears to be a few months from certification of the 787 I was wondering what the final process is like. Do they gather all the data and plans, load a truck, and drive it to the FAA all at once, or is the certification done part by part, so that some parts may already be accepted and its just a matter of the final details in the closing weeks?

I can see a reason for doing it the first way, since changes in one area could have an unforeseen impact in another. On the other hand, done all at once it would take a long time from the end of testing to EIS.

Is Boeing likely to get initial type certification soon, and then ETOPS later (but still before EIS)? If that were the case they could paint out the Experimental signs in the next couple of months. I imagine that doing ETOPS testing of an experimental aircraft is a hassle because they would need special permission from every county they fly to.

Considering the foreign exchange earned by delivering 20 787s this year (they are all going overseas), even if they are discounted, it will be a big plus for the US balance of payments. I hope the FAA is devoting enough resources to get it done.

7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineregliner From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
Do they gather all the data and plans, load a truck, and drive it to the FAA all at once, or is the certification done part by part, so that some parts may already be accepted and its just a matter of the final details in the closing weeks?

It's done bit by bit. We pass at stages. Several tests are actually conducted with an FAA pilot as captain



"Plane's don't fly in the air. They fly on paper!"
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6339 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
Is Boeing likely to get initial type certification soon, and then ETOPS later (but still before EIS)? If that were the case they could paint out the Experimental signs in the next couple of months. I imagine that doing ETOPS testing of an experimental aircraft is a hassle because they would need special permission from every county they fly to.

Some of the early dreamliner frames may carry the "EXPERIMENTAL" tags all of their lives, as early prototypes (even articles used in certification testing) aren't completely conformal to the specs of the ultimate design and drawings that the FAA ultimately certifies. If it's going to a customer, though, Boeing will figure out a way to bring the airframe into compliance so that the status of the airframe can be changed from experimental class.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9464 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

The certification process started about 6 years ago. Each component gets certified on its own and things eventually roll up. The FAA reviews certification plans and the qualification process for each new part. The workload is immense and some things are delegated to individuals at Boeing or a supplier and some go through the FAA. Hundreds of thousands of hours of lab testing go into a new airplane design. The process leads to parts earning safety of flight standard. System level certification requires flight and ground tests. Everything is electronically submitted gradually. Type certification cannot be granted until everything is done and processed or letters that exempt certain criteria are given.

The robustness of the certification process is why airplanes enter service nowadays with few problems compared to previous generations of aircraft. The lack of a fatal accident with the 777 and A380 proves this and is a major part of the reason why new airplane programs cost so much and often face delays. A problem found during the analysis can lead to a delay, but a few aircraft generations ago, the problem might not have been found until the airplane was in service.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinedlednicer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 539 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2548 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

The US Government publishes a set of regulations in TItle 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations that a manufacturer must show compliance with to receive a FAA Type Certificate for a design. Part 25 of TItle 14 covers jet aircraft with a gross weight of 12,500 lbs or greater and prop aircraft with 19 seats or more or a gross weight of 19,000 lbs or greater. Part 23 covers aircraft below these limits.

Early in the process, the FAA and the manufacturer must come to agreement on which subsections of the regulations are appliable and what special conditions apply. The manufacturer has five years from the date of application to demonstrate compliance, by analysis or testing, with all of these subsections and special conditions.

The Type Certificate only covers approval of the design. To produce and deliver aircraft, the manufacturer must also get a Production Certificate, which also involves more demonstrations of compliance with the federal regulations.


User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Is Boeing nearing the 5 year limit on the 787? Has it been extended?

User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

According to this website Boeing made application on March 28, 2003 for the 787-8 passenger airplane. It must have been extended.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...01404!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=1

From Boeing's April 2, 2003 press release:
"This is a very exciting part of the development effort," said Mike Bair, Boeing senior vice president of the 7E7 program. "Manufacturers typically begin this process about five years before anticipated certification date. We expect certification and 7E7 entry into service in 2008, so now is the time to file our applications."
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2003/q2/nr_030404g.html

[Edited 2011-03-17 19:26:47]


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
Since Boeing appears to be a few months from certification of the 787 I was wondering what the final process is like. Do they gather all the data and plans, load a truck, and drive it to the FAA all at once, or is the certification done part by part, so that some parts may already be accepted and its just a matter of the final details in the closing weeks?

Final details in the closing weeks...if they waited until all the paperwork was done on everything, them submitted the whole thing to the FAA, it would be another 5-6 years before type certification was granted.

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
Is Boeing likely to get initial type certification soon, and then ETOPS later (but still before EIS)?

Boeing said a few weeks ago that they were still shooting for ETOPS at delivery.

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
If that were the case they could paint out the Experimental signs in the next couple of months.

Unlikely...even if type certification is granted, any aircraft Boeing keeps would be for testing and would carry an Experimental ticket anyway (you can do a lot more things with an EX ticket airplane than a regular ticket).

Quoting aklrno (Thread starter):
I imagine that doing ETOPS testing of an experimental aircraft is a hassle because they would need special permission from every county they fly to.

It's not that big a deal...as long as you give them a few business days warning, most "friendly" countries are very accommodating. 787's have already overflown Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland, the UK, France, Denmark, Bolivia...plus whatever intervening countries they may have crossed en route to those places.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 5):

Is Boeing nearing the 5 year limit on the 787? Has it been extended?

Yes, and yes, although I think they had to renegotiate since some regulations changed in the 5 year interval.

Tom.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic What Is The Certification Process?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Is The Thickness Of An Asphalt Runway? posted Tue Nov 16 2010 04:20:34 by mehairy7
What Is The Formula To Determine Block Time? posted Thu Aug 19 2010 09:50:12 by flaps30
What Is The Inside The Bump On The FX MD-11 Nose? posted Sat Jun 12 2010 12:49:42 by rktsci
What Is The Vent On The Side Of This DC-10? posted Tue Jun 1 2010 19:18:58 by Gulfstream650
What Is The Cone On The Back Of A Jet Engine? posted Sun May 9 2010 08:55:23 by c5load
What Is The A340-600X? posted Mon Apr 12 2010 08:46:29 by B747forever
What Is The Difference Between Line And Hangar Mx? posted Tue Mar 9 2010 17:45:46 by LHCVG
787: What Is The Benefit Of So Much Wing Flex? posted Tue Dec 22 2009 03:06:46 by Faro
What Is The Max Speed In Ground Proximity? posted Fri Sep 11 2009 13:57:28 by INNflyer
Antonov's Drooping Wings. What Is The Advantage? posted Tue Jun 9 2009 07:08:45 by Owleye

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format