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Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program - Should I Go For It?  
User currently offlineinitious From Singapore, joined Dec 2008, 1067 posts, RR: 6
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10709 times:

Hello fellow a.netters! Not sure if this is the right forum, please move if necessary, thanks.

I saw that Jetstar is now offering a pilot cadet program for pilot wannabes. The cost is AUD$142,000 which includes accomodation in both Melbourne and Hong Kong and meal allowance in Hong Kong. I have spoken to my dad about this and he seems supportive of the idea as I will get employment as a FO in Jetstar after the course.

Link here: http://www.jetstar.com/sg/en/pilot-cadet-program.aspx

However, I have some questions to ask.

- How much does an FO make in Jetstar for newbies? I hope it's a decent pay like S$4000 or something (although I might be thinking too much) so I can repay any loans that I have to take on my own.
- Is it recommended going for this program?
- Any idea how long we are required to stay in Melbourne / Hong Kong? I guess I'll need to stay longer in Melbourne as that is where all the flight training takes place.
- Will I be fully certified as an airline pilot after the completion of this course?
- Is OAA an established and successful aviation institution?
- Can I work for a few years in Jetstar and jump over to other established carriers like SQ after gaining more experience?

That's all I have for now. I hope to be receive your advices as this is really important to me since I really wanna be an airline pilot.


One way I will fly around the world!
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10702 times:

You better hope it's a lot more than S$4000 if you want to pay off a A$140,000 loan! S$4,000 is more like SIA cabin crew starting pay.

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10686 times:

I'd say the program probably has a clause requiring you to stay there for a few years. After that you can do what you like, just remember when transferring to another airline you usually drop to the bottom of the ladder in terms of seniority, there are a few (I think Gulf carriers) that might let you transfer over as an FO rather than an SO.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3442 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10655 times:

Most of those sound like questions to ask a representative of the program.

I would also be very concerned about the size of that loan. It is huge. What kind of financing is available, what kind of interest rate, and what would monthly payments be like?

Finally, you'll probably want to poke around PPRUNE, where you're much more likely to get good answers to your questions.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10603 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 3):
Finally, you'll probably want to poke around PPRUNE, where you're much more likely to get good answers to your questions.

That is the better place to ask about this. Also I would call them up and ask those questions to them. $140,000 that is a lot of money. Also what happens if you do not do well in the program?
Also do you have a private pilots license already at least?



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21866 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10566 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
I'd say the program probably has a clause requiring you to stay there for a few years.

I'd hope not. You're basically paying them to train you - for them to require you to stay with them is pretty unethical.

I'd understand a requirement to stay if you weren't paying for your training, but when you're forking over $140,000 of your own money, things are very different.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineinitious From Singapore, joined Dec 2008, 1067 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10536 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 1):

You better hope it's a lot more than S$4000 if you want to pay off a A$140,000 loan! S$4,000 is more like SIA cabin crew starting pay.

I'm not really sure what to expect as a new FO but I heard that you can get as much as S$5000 or more if you are just starting out.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):

I'd say the program probably has a clause requiring you to stay there for a few years. After that you can do what you like, just remember when transferring to another airline you usually drop to the bottom of the ladder in terms of seniority, there are a few (I think Gulf carriers) that might let you transfer over as an FO rather than an SO.

I don't really mind dropping to the bottom of the letter. I guess the course is a partnership between Jetstar and OAA so when I complete it I can start work at Jetstar immediately.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 3):
Most of those sound like questions to ask a representative of the program.

I would also be very concerned about the size of that loan. It is huge. What kind of financing is available, what kind of interest rate, and what would monthly payments be like?

Finally, you'll probably want to poke around PPRUNE, where you're much more likely to get good answers to your questions.

Thanks for your input. The loan is also what I'm most concerned about as money is the largest factor. I will try reducing the loan to a minimum and hope to repay the monthly payments as soon as possible. Hope the interests wouldn't be too high since it's for studying purposes. I will definitely check out PPRUNE later on, thanks for the info!

Quoting flymia (Reply 4):
That is the better place to ask about this. Also I would call them up and ask those questions to them. $140,000 that is a lot of money. Also what happens if you do not do well in the program?
Also do you have a private pilots license already at least?

I am calling them up to ask about that on Monday. My dad is also worried that if I do not do well in the program the money might just be gone. I do not have a PPL currently but I'll be going for the ab-initio program which is for people like me with no flying experience if I'm not mistaken.

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
I'd hope not. You're basically paying them to train you - for them to require you to stay with them is pretty unethical.

I'll do a check with them on that, it may just be a choice whether for me to stay with them or not. Even if it is not required for me to stay with them, I'll still work with Jetstar as A320s are great to fly in!

Regards,
Daniel



One way I will fly around the world!
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10516 times:

Quoting initious (Reply 6):
I do not have a PPL currently but I'll be going for the ab-initio program which is for people like me with no flying experience if I'm not mistaken.

See this is something I would be a little worried about before spending $140,000. I would make sure you ask. 1: If you dont do well what happens. Im sure ou will do fine but just in case. And more importantly what if you find out you do not like the flying as much as you think you would. Can you leave the program etc..
I would take some flying lessons ASAP. This is a lot of money and you should just make sure that you want to do it. A few lessons wont show if you have good flying skills or anything like that of course. But at least get up there and fly a plane. Just my 2 cents.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21866 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10506 times:

Quoting initious (Reply 6):
Even if it is not required for me to stay with them, I'll still work with Jetstar as A320s are great to fly in!

A lot of airlines have 320s. The airline you fly for is more important than the type of plane you fly. For example, the 738 might be a great plane, but you'll have a much different experience flying it for Ryanair than you will flying it for KLM. Even if I really wanted to fly the 738, I'd rather fly a different type than fly for Ryanair - there'd always be a chance to move back to the 738 with another airline later on.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineinitious From Singapore, joined Dec 2008, 1067 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 7):
See this is something I would be a little worried about before spending $140,000. I would make sure you ask. 1: If you dont do well what happens. Im sure ou will do fine but just in case. And more importantly what if you find out you do not like the flying as much as you think you would. Can you leave the program etc..

Thanks for the valuable input, that has never crossed my mind. I will make sure to ask those questions when I give them a call.

Quoting flymia (Reply 7):
I would take some flying lessons ASAP. This is a lot of money and you should just make sure that you want to do it. A few lessons wont show if you have good flying skills or anything like that of course. But at least get up there and fly a plane. Just my 2 cents.

By flying lessons, do you mean taking a PPL or just some casual flying classes that lets you experience what it is like to fly a plane?

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
A lot of airlines have 320s. The airline you fly for is more important than the type of plane you fly. For example, the 738 might be a great plane, but you'll have a much different experience flying it for Ryanair than you will flying it for KLM. Even if I really wanted to fly the 738, I'd rather fly a different type than fly for Ryanair - there'd always be a chance to move back to the 738 with another airline later on.

Thanks for the advice! I hope Jetstar is not a very difficult company to work with, seeing that they are a subsidiary of Qantas..

Regards,
Daniel



One way I will fly around the world!
User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1043 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10482 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
You're basically paying them to train you - for them to require you to stay with them is pretty unethical.

Well, it depends. A safe job as a new pilot who just completed training seems valuable to me. (Of course, one has to consider how employment options generally are, and if pilot training in a regular flight school makes more sense). Things are similar with LH: You also have to pay them a fair amount of own funds after completing their flight school. You do this on the job, flying for LH or their partners, as a part of your salary is taken for payback.

[Edited 2011-04-16 03:05:28]


'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21866 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10442 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 10):
A safe job as a new pilot who just completed training seems valuable to me.

First of all, there's no such thing as a safe job as a new pilot - if the carrier in question isn't hiring when you come out of school, you're SOL - and accurately predicting that is difficult at best.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 10):
Things are similar with LH: You also have to pay them a fair amount of own funds after completing their flight school. You do this on the job, flying for LH or their partners, as a part of your salary is taken for payback.

Which is different from requiring the money up front. If I go to OAA and say "here's $140,000", train me up to the level of a type rating in the A320, and they do, I can then take that training and go anywhere with it. So why should Jetstar be able to say "we'll take your $140,000 and have OAA train you, but then can only work for us"? If the job with Jetstar doesn't materialize, they haven't lost anything, because you've basically paid for your training. But you're still out $140,000 and are stuck with them, even if you don't like working there. If someone is asking me to give up my right to change jobs if I wish to, it's only fair to ask them to give up something in return - subsidized or free training being a good example.

With LH's system (at least the way I understand it), they're incentivized to give you a job after training, because otherwise they'll have spent money on you and have nothing to show for it. By requiring the money up front, Jetstar isn't going to feel such obligations.

I'm not trying to disparage ab-initio programs in general - there are good ones out there. But there are also a lot of scams, and I've seen people get screwed by putting a lot of money down for something that doesn't materialize. Flight training is a business, and while there are a lot of people and companies who are honest and just looking for fair compensation for their services, there are also people and companies who are out to take people's money and give them as little as possible in return. So I encourage people to be very careful and make sure that they're not being had when signing up.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1043 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10408 times:

Mir:

I took another look at the site. First of all, there is some sort of guarantee you get a job at the carrier after completing the training successfully:

"If successful in our Skills Assessment you will be offered a conditional offer of employment as a First Officer with Jetstar Asia - subject to successful completion of the course"

I couldn't find any information that you have to work for Jetstar Asia after the training (there probably is, and I may just not have seen it).

For me, the bottom line is: How much money would an ATPL license that you do on your own cost in comparison to what the airline charges for their course? Would it be worth paying more money (most likely) for the airline's course because there might be a good chance to get a job afterwards?



'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10379 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Which is different from requiring the money up front. If I go to OAA and say "here's $140,000", train me up to the level of a type rating in the A320, and they do, I can then take that training and go anywhere with it. So why should Jetstar be able to say "we'll take your $140,000 and have OAA train you, but then can only work for us"? If the job with Jetstar doesn't materialize, they haven't lost anything, because you've basically paid for your training. But you're still out $140,000 and are stuck with them, even if you don't like working there. If someone is asking me to give up my right to change jobs if I wish to, it's only fair to ask them to give up something in return - subsidized or free training being a good example.

The difference is if you go an pay them to train you, then it will likely be a type rating etc only mostly in a sim. From the sounds of it this course takes you through PPL, CPL etc then gets into the ATPL stuff type ratings etc then probably practical time once enough experience has been gained. By the time you get a CPL, MEIR these days with a few hundred hours then thats half that money gone.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10323 times:

Quoting initious (Reply 9):
By flying lessons, do you mean taking a PPL or just some casual flying classes that lets you experience what it is like to fly a plane?

Either IMO. If you have some money and time before the program starts I would at least start some PPL training a little bit maybe get some basics and make sure this is something you really want to do. A career as an airline pilot can be great but it is not just a career it is a lifestyle. It seems like a good program.
Best of luck! Keep us informed.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineinitious From Singapore, joined Dec 2008, 1067 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

http://www.groupsmore.com/cities/multiple/deals/oxbold

A friend linked me this, just like what flymia suggested. Not sure if I wanna go for it as it's in SZB and it'll cost me the FY flight SIN-SZB-SIN too.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
A career as an airline pilot can be great but it is not just a career it is a lifestyle.

I like how you put it!

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
Best of luck! Keep us informed.

Thanks! If I become an airline pilot I'll definitely post on a.net! =)



One way I will fly around the world!
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