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Brake Temperatures After Landing At London City  
User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1022 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

Hello everyone,

London City (LCY) has a very short runway: only 1508m meters long. Still, fairly sizeable aircraft such as the Embraer E190 or the Airbus A318 are based there and are operated into this particular airport on a daily base. I wondered whether a high amount of braking action was needed in order to achieve a safe deceleration. If so, to what degree does this affect the brake temperature after landing? And are the brakes of aircraft that are operated several times a day into LCY more prone to wear and tear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmXiwKWU3N4

PS: Those who have insight into E170/E190 operation into LCY, are autobrakes used for landing there? If that is the case, what setting (LO/MED/HI)?

Many thanks!

Marius


'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
I wondered whether a high amount of braking action was needed in order to achieve a safe deceleration.

All other things being equal, yes, you need to brake harder on a shorter runway.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
If so, to what degree does this affect the brake temperature after landing?

There's a direct (nearly linear) relationship between energy absorption and brake temperature. The total amount of energy to be dissipated is a function of just your approach speed and weight, but the proportion that goes into the brakes (vs. amount into reverse thrust and drag devices) will be different. Shorter runways tend to put more into the brakes, leading to higher brake temperatures.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
And are the brakes of aircraft that are operated several times a day into LCY more prone to wear and tear?

If they're steel, probably. Steel brakes wear in proportion to energy absorbed. Carbon brakes shouldn't make much difference, since they wear in proportion to number of applications (one cycle wear is about the same, regardless of how much energy went into the brake on that cycle).

Tom


User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1022 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

Thanks Tom.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 1):
Shorter runways tend to put more into the brakes, leading to higher brake temperatures.

Would you say that the temperatures rise so much that it becomes a problem, i.e. a longer cool down phase is needed, possibly extending the turnaround time?

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 1):
Steel brakes wear in proportion to energy absorbed. Carbon brakes shouldn't make much difference

Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?

Marius



'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5426 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?

Can't speak for the E-jets or airbus. However the 737NG has had carbon brakes available, as a option, only in the last year or two.

[Edited 2011-04-25 15:42:31]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Thread starter):
London City (LCY) has a very short runway: only 1508m meters long. Still, fairly sizeable aircraft such as the Embraer E190 or the Airbus A318 are based there and are operated into this particular airport

Dozens of even larger aircraft, up to 737-800 size, operate daily to/from Rio de Janeiro's city-center Santos Dumont airport where the longest runway is even shorter (1323m, 4341 ft) than at LCY and ends in water at both ends. Brakes and reverse thrust must also get heavy use there.


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Video of Gol 737-700 landing at SDU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMgZ61WayA&NR=1

Longer video of TAM A319 approach/landing. Go to about the 3:15 mark for the landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRWGJhHkEXY


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Would you say that the temperatures rise so much that it becomes a problem, i.e. a longer cool down phase is needed, possibly extending the turnaround time?

It all depends on landing weight...for the types of short/medium-haul jets that go in and out of there, that are built for fast turns and aren't tremendously heavy, I wouldn't expect it to be a big problem.

But yes, you do need to monitor brake energy and that can push up your turn time.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?

Usually, yes. Some stuff with a long derivative history like the 737NG can still be found with steel.

Tom.


User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1022 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5147 times:

Thanks everyone!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):

I totally forgot about SDU! Of course, my question can be considered extended to that airport. The only advantage I see might be that the aircraft don't come in as steep as they do in LCY (5,5° angle) and that they have a wider runway available.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 5):
Usually, yes.

I guess it would be a worthwhile investment for carriers based at LCY (read: BA CityFlyer) to have their aircraft equipped with carbon brakes.

Marius



'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
User currently offlineoldtimer From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 6):
I guess it would be a worthwhile investment for carriers based at LCY (read: BA CityFlyer) to have their aircraft equipped with carbon brakes.

BAe146/Avro RJ had carbon brakes from the early days, those that were doing stol landings were also fitted with brake fans, to assist with brake cooling for faster turnrounds
As a further point of interest, Concorde also had carbon brakes.
I assume the A318 and E190 would also have carbon brakes as they are better than steel for harsh application, being more efficient the hotter they get.

oldtimer



Oldtimer, I should have known better!
User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4433 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Video of Gol 737-700 landing at SDU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMgZ...&NR=1

Cool vid and looks like the Autobrakes are set to Max.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineTPAJAY From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4108 times:

I personally like the approach into KEYW, the field is 4800 Ft in length:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yTefCX3H08


User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1596 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
Seeing the E-Jets and the Airbus as modern aircraft, can one assume that they are equipped with carbon brakes?
Quoting oldtimer (Reply 7):
BAe146/Avro RJ had carbon brakes from the early days

The A320 series featured unlike the 737/737NG since 1988 carbon brakes.



“Faliure is not an option.”
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