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Which Is The Fastest Civil Aircraft In The World?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16633 times:

Which is the fastest civil aircraft in the world? The A380 I guess?

112 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemafi29 From Germany, joined Nov 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16638 times:

I think both the 747-400 and the A380 have a cruise speed of 0.85M. I think the 747-8 is a tiny bit faster, cruise speed of 0.855M IIRC.

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9031 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16613 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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The 744 has a design speed of Mach 0.85, the 748 0.855. So pretty close. I don't know about the Mmo of the 380, but I did 0.88 last week in the 744. Very shortly of course. Some wind change made the speed increase to almost Mmo 0.90...

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16551 times:

Citation 750 at one point was the fastest biz jet at m.92. I think the Gulfstream 650 was aiming to beat it, but I don't know if it actually has.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16551 times:

If by civil you mean non-military AFAIK the Cessna Citation X the fastest.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePart147 From Ireland, joined Dec 2008, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16500 times:

Concorde      


It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16474 times:

Quoting Part147 (Reply 5):
Concorde

If we're counting out of service, wasn't the Tu-144 faster than Concorde?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16437 times:

This would be right up there with the fastest "civil aircraft"!

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Photo © Joey Collura



User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1612 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16360 times:

Well, for the time it is within our atmosphere I think SpaceShipTwo is the fastest civil and commercial aircraft;  

"SpaceShipTwo will reach 4,200 km/h (2,600 mph), using a single hybrid rocket motor"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShipTwo



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1612 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16356 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
wasn't the Tu-144 faster than Concorde?

IIRC it wasn't, also the Tu-144 couldn't super-cruise, the Concorde could do this.



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16334 times:

Probably the Gulfstream G650.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1359 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16317 times:

Nope, as previously mentioned it's the Space Ship Two. It's got wings and it will fly with fare paying passengers thus ticking all the boxes for "civil aircraft".

If you wish to disallow that aircraft, the next thing will be the G-650 and/or the Citation X. It's only after those two you enter the realm of 747s and TriStars. The A380 is nowhere near the top.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2438 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16318 times:

Currently the fastest civil aircraft that is certified is the Citation X. Its Mmo is 0.92M. Nothing is currently certified to fly faster than the Citation X.

Per Cessna's website:
"The Citation X is the fastest civilian aircraft in the sky, cruising just shy of the sound barrier at Mach .92. "
http://www.cessna.com/citation/citation-x.html



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently onlinebond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16185 times:

Well, the SR71 was flying for the CIA and NASA  

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently onlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10024 posts, RR: 96
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16173 times:
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Quoting B777LRF (Reply 11):
It's only after those two you enter the realm of 747s and TriStars. The A380 is nowhere near the top.

But the 747 and Tristar are?......

Rgds


User currently offlineWingscrubber From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16100 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 11):
Nope, as previously mentioned it's the Space Ship Two. It's got wings and it will fly with fare paying passengers thus ticking all the boxes for "civil aircraft".

I think the words 'space ship' disqualify it as being 'an aircraft', as that is just one phase of its mission. Otherwise you would be justified in saying that the Sea Dart, or maybe an Apollo capsule, is the worlds fastest boat...  
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Probably the Gulfstream G650.

Gulfstream are going to claim the 'worlds fastest bizjet' title by certifying to mach 0.005 faster than the X, and they claim they hold a record for their Mach 0.995 dive test, but the Citation X supposedly hit mach 1.18 by accident, during its own dive testing, but I don't think it stands as a record as there was no independant adjudication when it happened, just some slightly astonished flight test engineers, I think.

Nonetheless, I think Cessna plans to retake the MMO record from the G650 with the 'Ten' eventually, as a difference of Mach 0.005 only equates to about 3 knots, so they can just bump up the MMO 6 knots to Mach 0.93.

Btw - Happy retirement Mr. Pelton!



Resident TechOps Troll
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9637 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 16010 times:

While only still flying for the UK Air Force, in the subsonic Airliner world, I believe the VC10 was the fastest with a cruise speed of Mach 0.886. The speed was partially its downfall because of its fuel burn exceeded the 707-320s that it was competing against.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6381 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15958 times:

If we're sticking to subsonic airliners, don't forget the Convair CV-990A Coronado. Mach 0.90...   Not quite a Citation X, I know, but awfully close...


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15929 times:

As far as passenger aircraft still flying the Boeing 727 is at .90


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4515 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15882 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
As far as passenger aircraft still flying the Boeing 727 is at .9

.92 Actually and I have flown it that fast.


In flight test it was taken to .96 with no issues.


The 747 Classic was taken to .99.


There are several Aircraft that can qualify for the title of 'fastest' but it also depends on whether you mean their maximum speed or normal cruise speed.


With the obvious exception of Concorde I would say the 747 is the fastest civilian Airliner, based on its maximum speed (VMO) and Mach (MMO)


More importantly it is routinely and economically operated at very high Mach numbers .86-.88



It was designed to be flown fast and still is, edging out the A380, which while fast, is not operated normally at these higher Mach numbers.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2438 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15839 times:

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Which is the fastest civil aircraft in the world?

Based on the various answers that have been given, it is obvious that the question does not have a definitite answer because of the various assumptions that can be made. For instance:

Do the airplanes have to be in current production only?
Or can they be previous production?
Do they have to be operating today? What if they no longer are flown?
Does the plane have to be certified to be considered? (The Gulfstream 650 isn't certified yet).
Is the fastest speed based on the design speed Mmo as found on the TCDS? Or is the fastest speed based on the Md speed required for certification?
Or is it the speed that it inadvertently went to during testing (beyond the requirements)?
Does civil include military models that are now operated under a civil registry?
.....



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15686 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 16):
While only still flying for the UK Air Force, in the subsonic Airliner world, I believe the VC10 was the fastest with a cruise speed of Mach 0.886. The speed was partially its downfall because of its fuel burn exceeded the 707-320s that it was competing against.

When my uncle flew them in the 70s, they typically operated them in the .84-88M range.

I recall him mentioning that they would regularly cruise at .93M during ferry/repositioning flights, though to do so they would have to pull a number of circuit breakers.

One of the few advantages the VC-10 had over the 707 was it's superb field performance. NBO-LHR on a hot summers day never an issue. The B707 and early 747 variants would struggle.

My uncle would often laugh at his ex PAF pals struggling out of the mid-east in their PK 707s.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6651 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15484 times:

There are a few private MiG-29 out there...


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1612 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15477 times:

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 21):
though to do so they would have to pull a number of circuit breakers.

Why did they have to pull a few circuit breakers, because of the overspeed alarm?



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9031 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15465 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 23):
Why did they have to pull a few circuit breakers, because of the overspeed alarm?

Some airplanes have an overspeed protection. They won't let you fly into the overspeed.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
25 Starlionblue : Ok then. I've included only original civil aircraft, not military aircraft in civil use like private MiG-29s. Current production only civil aircraft
26 jetpilot : The DC8 broke the sound barrier in testing .It was the first civilian airliner to go supersonic
27 travelavnut : I know, but was this the case with the VC-10?!
28 Post contains images wilco737 : I doubt it. I am sure they just hit the throttles, shallow descent and overspeed here we go wilco737
29 foxxray : Winglets fitted Citation X is currently the fastest civil aircraft with a MMO of .945 ! The Ten will probably be similar while the G650 MMO is .925.
30 330guy : I heard that when the 747 came out Boeing advertised it the fastest airliner in production, they done this to boost sales and infact the 727 was faste
31 imiakhtar : That's correct. I believe the MMO on the VC-10 was in the region of .89M. Any faster and various bells and whistles would go off. I'm dragging most o
32 Post contains images KELPkid : In a power dive, as I recall. That's cheating
33 HaveBlue : As already stated the Citation X is the current champ, though Gulfstream is hoping to steal this title with their 650. Also the Tu-144 was faster than
34 Flighty : Space Shuttle. (no more)
35 bond007 : no more?? It's waiting to go up again on May 16! Jimbo
36 Post contains images cpd : As far as I know, its normal top speed was only M2.0, about the same as Concorde (or very slightly slower). One off attempts at high speeds for the p
37 Starlionblue : While it is not an airliner, it is civil, as in non-military. NASA is explicitly not military.
38 Flighty : It is probably the fastest thing with wings that lands on a runway. Military or not military. But it's not really in the spirit of the question. The
39 Post contains images DocLightning : The Space Shuttle is technically civil, is it not?
40 zeke : Thunder City used to operate a number of English Electric Lightnings. They were the only aircraft out of the F-14, F-15, F-16, and Star fighter to be
41 Post contains images cptspeaking : Don't trust WIkipedia - their article is wrong The winglet mod does not increase the Mmo of the X.... still .92 You might get a slightly higher cruis
42 Post contains images David L : As is usually the case when such topics are discussed, we need some clarification, e.g. definitions of "fastest", "civil" and "aircraft". One allegedl
43 Post contains images DashTrash : You're just not flying it right.
44 Post contains images cptspeaking : Yeah, only M.91,what a piece of junk, right?
45 DashTrash : I used to laugh at guys I flew with who would complain about not seeing .92 towards the end of the flight when the aircraft was light enough to have
46 bond007 : Well, they are either both in the spirit of the question, or neither! BUT .... the A-12 (pre SR-71) was designed specifically for the CIA, a civilian
47 boeingfixer : You heard wrong. The MMO for the B747 series is 0.92M while the MMO on the 727 can vary between 0.88M and 0.90M due to gross weight. Therefore the B7
48 Zkpilot : The 744 is faster than the A388. Typically they cruise 0.01-0.02 faster, some airlines have since slowed 744s down to even out the flight times. It ha
49 Post contains links and images HaveBlue : The original post specified 'civil', not 'airliner'. http://www.vectorsite.net/avsst.html The Tu-144 cruised faster and had a faster top speed. That'
50 474218 : Original post: So you and I read it correctly. All the talk of this plane can go Mach 0.92 and that 0.98 is just not realistic. Current airlines almo
51 Max Q : Not correct, in A mode the B727 I flew had an MMO of .92 Not true either, Mach numbers above .82 are used very commonly on several different types of
52 Post contains links boeingfixer : Not according to the current Type Certificate Data Sheet: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...f6985256722006b0c1c/$FILE/A3we.pdf A mode on our air
53 Max Q : I cannot explain why the MMO on your Aircraft was lower. We operated ours in both A and B mode depending on ZFW. Most of the time we used A mode, MMO
54 Post contains links 747classic : Regarding the 747, it's important to note that all classic series (747-100/100B,, -SP, -200B, -200F, -200C, -100BSUD and -300) have a VMO/MMO of 375/0
55 SchorschNG : The B747-8 will probably be more efficient at .855, but lose when it flies farther. Today's airliners are carefully optimised for a certain cruise Mac
56 flipdewaf : That was an SOP for the lightning wasn't it? Fred
57 Post contains links David L : I was only aware of one instance, and only "alleged", at that. However, since you asked, I checked and, according to Wikipedia, it seems to have happ
58 SchorschNG : The F-16 couldn't do that, the Starfighter only theoretically (it could go faster than Mach 2, but was redlined at that Mach number due to temperatur
59 David L : All the information I've seen (which isn't much, admittedly) suggests Zeke is right. Not only could it theoretically do it but it actually did in Apr
60 Valorien : Okay, this might have been mentioned in all of the techo mumbo jumbo above, but you all lost me. I'd like to know what the fastest aircraft is that fl
61 Post contains images bond007 : OK, but you weren't the original poster Jimbo
62 Max Q : Simple answer to that, the B747.
63 Post contains links 747classic : I agree, because the 747 has the largest wing sweep (37.5) of all airliners. So, the 747 is potential the aircraft with the highest speed/mach limita
64 SchorschNG : Wing sweep is only one single factor in cruise speed. A well tailored airframe can compensate the few degrees extra wing sweep. Current CF6-equipped -
65 747classic : That's true, but as stated : it gives the aircraft the POTENTIAL for a high max. and economic cruise speed. The wing profile (super-critical or not)
66 SchorschNG : I disagree. Comparing wing sweep will not tell us anything about the relative capability of the aircraft to fly fast. The A380 has an MMO or M.89, an
67 Max Q : Good points 747Classic, However the wing sweep on the 727 is 35 degrees.
68 747classic : The only thing I stated, if you read my text carefully, is that on an aircraft with equal parameters : - same wing profile - same fuselage drag - same
69 zeke : The main reason would be the A380 cruising 4-6000 ft higher Lufthansa on the route proving flight overtook a BA 744 at a lower level, and then had to
70 YokoTsuno : I always believed that this had something to do with the how close you get to the sound barrier. Would that mean that a Concorde would also have diffe
71 747classic : If you are quoting me, pls. quote the whole sentence and not a part of it. I wrote : "The only thing I stated, if you read my text carefully, is that
72 Starlionblue : Sorta. Wing sweep delays shockwave formation as you approach the sound barrier, meaning you can go faster without mach buffet. However modern wing de
73 zeke : Does not change what I said before, the most economical aircraft will not have the highest sweep. The benefits of supercritical airfoil will actually
74 747classic : As stated before : We are not searching here for the most economical aircraft. We are searching for an aircraft with the highest economical cruise sp
75 Post contains images HaveBlue : Um, I love how everyone puts there own parameters and qualifications on the much simpler question asked by the original poster... which is simply thi
76 Post contains links be77 : OK - how about SS2 as being the fastest civilian designed and built glider. Space Ship 2 Certified To 14CFRWhat? (by GolfOscarDelta Dec 12 2009 in Tec
77 tdscanuck : There is nothing in the TCDS that would prevent a sweep change. Tom.
78 bond007 : Correct! ... and as is common with some threads, the OP hasn't commented after 76 posts! Jimbo
79 Max Q : Speed is underated, one of the many advantages of the B747 is its ability to sustain high Mach numbers for very long ranges, arriving quicker is alway
80 FlyASAGuy2005 : From a technical standpoint, why is this? I'd always heard that The Queen almost always wins the race on TPAC flight from LAX. What makes the 747 so
81 atct : The new Citation Ten (as opposed to X) will be the fastest. As of right now, I would say the Citation X. Virgin Galactic is fully operational as of ye
82 Starlionblue : Mainly two factors: - Higher degree of sweep. The plane was designed for speed. Sweep, and more sweep, generally means delayed formation of shockwave
83 zeke : That is not the 747-8 That is not the 747, it is not a good fuselage shape by todays standards. Like the F-117 is no longer the best stealth design,
84 747classic : Zeke, you are a true supporter of the A380, but I don't want to be dragged into the endless A380 (new design, everything is perfect) versus 747-8 (ger
85 zeke : The 747 is a very old design, it is not the most economical aircraft flying by a long way. It is structurally, aerodynamically, outdated, and has ant
86 cpd : The designs I've seen all have similar well swept wings (BAe AST3 for instance, Aerospatiale Alliance) and generally have some resemblance to Concord
87 CharlieNoble : Agreed. But that doesn't have any bearing at all on whether or not this statement is true: Will be interesting to find out when the Intercontinental
88 tdscanuck : That's impossible. The 747-8I hasn't started NAMS testing. Boeing already changed basic wing parameters (twice!) on the 747 and successfully had it u
89 ADent : Wouldn't X-37/OTV be in the same class as the Space Shuttle?
90 Post contains links zeke : Not really, they are just optimised for a differnt cruise speed. As I stated earlier, cost index is what drives today’s cruise speeds. You will not
91 tdscanuck : And the airfoil and loft change, yes. It's not misleading, it's true. The original misleading comment was this one: It's simply not true that they we
92 CharlieNoble : I didn't catch that! Please disregard then...
93 Max Q : There are lots of factors affecting cruise Mach. All the poster wanted to know though was 'which is the fastest civil Aircraft in the world' As far as
94 Post contains images B747FE : Not to nitpick but the MMO was reduced to .90 in RVSM airspace. The change was done upon completion of the SB to qualify the airplane for RVSM Ops. I
95 tdscanuck : If it's tied in to RVSM, it's probably Mach effects on the air data system. Weird things happen to pitot and static probes when you get into high tra
96 zeke : I think it is time then you table the letter the FAA gave Boeing in 2007 relating to the agreed certification basis for the 747-8. I am not sure why
97 YokoTsuno : Could you elaborate a bit on that. A link will do as well? I don't understand why an obstacle can have a positive effect on drag. Does this have to do
98 Post contains images cpd : But aren't they using vortex lift on the SST type aircraft? I always thought that was a bit different than on the wide-winged subsonic planes. But I'
99 Post contains links tdscanuck : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule I'm not sure what the raindrop effect is in this context, but area ruling refers to the practice for transonic
100 B747FE : Basically, the "hump" increase the cross section area of the fuselage, evening the volume distribution over the length of the fuselage. Sounds logic.
101 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : I'll expand a bit on the posts by Tom and B747FE. Any mistakes are mine and I'll gladly take corrections or just general heckling. The area rule, AKA
102 Post contains links cpd : On Concorde, those effects could be seen in the gauges doing "wierd" things through the M1 (especially the VSI going up and down): http://www.youtube
103 Post contains images cptspeaking : Great question and great answer guys. Another example I can give is the Citation X (what can I say, I love flying the thing ) As I hear it, when Cess
104 Post contains links CitationJet : I am not sure if you mean that the design was changed before or after the prototype aircraft was built. All Citation X aircraft that were built had t
105 cptspeaking : I haven't seen anything documenting this, but I was told about it by the captains I fly with who learned it in class. As they (and I) understand it,
106 Post contains links atct : http://www.nuventureaircraft.com/ the flying egg
107 Post contains links YokoTsuno : Thanks. And me twit who always believed that the engines were put in front of the wings to avoid eating into the effective wing surface. How wrong can
108 foxxray : My sources weren't from wikipedia but from a Cessna salesman last month, when they came to show us some of their stuff...
109 cptspeaking : My apologies, please forgive my assumption. However, I still don't think the Cessna salesman was correct (what models was he showing?). The winglets
110 foxxray : The CJ4. I fully agree ! Actually, our Citation Ten conversation didn't last long, we only talked about winglets efficiency and then he told us that
111 united319 : Can't the 757, 767, & 777 cruise at M 0.84 - 0.86 without issues? I know they would not do that because if there is any change in the wind it can
112 Max Q : I believe the B777 routinely cruises at .84, haven't flown it though. As far as the 757 / 767 goes .84 is about as fast as you's normally want to go,
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