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L-1011 Flaps  
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5876 times:

What settings of flaps are used on the L-1011.

Also, what settings do the slats deploy at and at what flap-settings.



36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Flap settings are,
4
10
18
22
27 (not used)
33
42 (blocked on most aircraft).

4, 10, 18, 22 are approved for takeoff, depending on the individual airline procedures.

The slats deploy fully when the flap HANDLE moves beyond the 3 degree position.

DLC activates when the flap HANDLE is moved beyond the 30 degree position.

Hope this helps.


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5663 times:

How come that 42 is blocked? Too much drag, or?

User currently offlineRydawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 868 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5661 times:

"DLC activates when the flap HANDLE is moved beyond the 30 degree position. "


What is DLC? RyRy



You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5664 times:

Rydawg82:

DLC: Direct Lift Control. Unique system to the L-1011(afaik, for airliners anyways). Uses Spoilers (instead of relying on the elevator) during approach to make percise adjustments on the glide-slope. Also smoothen out the ride.

Tony,
B767-400er


User currently offlineLZ-TLT From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

The L-1011 is kinda uncommon when it comes to the tailplane:

-the WHOLE surface moves upon pushing the control column

-the "elevators" are used as TRIMTABS

(ie, the surfaces are used in the REVERSE way than on common airliners).

DLC is another feature Lockheed incorporated on the TriStar. AFAIK, it's a kind of "stick puller" which yanks the elevators up according to the speed on takeoff. Lockheed used this even as an advertising gag, claiming(and proving in various flight tests) that the 1011 will takeoff even with the totally wrong(virtually ANY) elevator trim setting.


User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

LZ-TLT

How's that....once again?

Have flown the TriStar for twenty years...don't seem to remember it quite THAT way. Especially the DLC business.


User currently offlineNotar520AC From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

Hey- I gotta question- does the #2 engine have a clamshell reverse thruster?


BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
User currently offlineCharliecossie From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5522 times:

Thrust reverser!
No.


User currently offlineDC-10inLB From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 5501 times:

Ya it was cool watching the Tristars roll out from T5 and do their preflight control surface tests....the whole horizonal stabilizer moved. They called it "The Flying Tail" As for DLC. This allowed for a much smoother, more precise descent. The spoilers reduced lift without changing the aircraft's pitch. Also on the -500 series there were what's called ACS - Active Control System, inwhich the ailerons were simultaniously deflected upwards slightly in flight. This would actually bring the load imposed on the wings closer to the wing root, in a sense increasing the rigidity of the wing. Lockheed you must admit was pretty innovative.

User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Close, but no cigar. ACS increased wing bending relief, not rigidity

User currently offlineRendezvous From New Zealand, joined May 2001, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

So does anyone know why 27* isn't used and why 42* is blocked?

User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5420 times:

27 is not used because NO operator requested ops at that flap setting....and 42 is blocked because the flap load relief system was not all that reliable.

User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5262 times:

While having a look at the L1011 TCDS, I saw the flap settings. So I'll bring back this topic and ask: Why does the Tristar have so many flap settings? Most other large aircraft have about four positions.

Quoting 411A (Reply 1):
Flap settings are,

By chance, did you forget flap 14?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5217 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
By chance, did you forget flap 14?

L-1011-500's used the 14 degree flap setting. But not the 42 degree position, because the load relieving system was never installed on the -500's.


I am not sure 411A has flown the -500.

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
While having a look at the L1011 TCDS, I saw the flap settings. So I'll bring back this topic and ask: Why does the Tristar have so many flap settings? Most other large aircraft have about four positions.

My question is why the others don't have more.

Unlike todays airliners L-1011 were designed to flown. The additional flap settings allow the flight crew optimize aircraft for all flight regimes.


User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5173 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
am not sure 411A has flown the -500.

Only about 3,000 hours...out of 15,000 in total, in the L1011.
Will add another 300 very shortly.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5108 times:



Quoting B767-400er (Reply 4):
DLC: Direct Lift Control. Unique system to the L-1011(afaik, for airliners anyways).

F-14's have DLC. Good system for keeping the critical angle of attack while landing aboard the ship and needing to make adjustments on the glideslope.


User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
While having a look at the L1011 TCDS, I saw the flap settings. So I'll bring back this topic and ask: Why does the Tristar have so many flap settings? Most other large aircraft have about four positions.

Most large aircraft have about four positions? Five or six is much more the norm.

747: 0, 1, 5, 10, 20, 25, 30.

757/767/777: 0, 1, 5, 15, 20, 25, 30.

DC-10: UP, EXT, 1, variable, 15, 22, 35, 50

MD-11: UP, EXT, 1, variable, 28, 35, 50

The DC-10 and MD-11 have a large number of possible positions due to the variable detent dial-a-flap system.

It's only FBW Airbuses that have a reduced number of flap settings. even these have 5 plus UP:

UP, 1, 1+F, 2, 3, FULL.

[Edited 2008-10-05 08:16:43]


The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5021 times:



Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 17):
Most large aircraft have about four positions? Five or six is much more the norm.

Well, the number I gave did not consider the up/0 position. And I said ABOUT four.  Smile



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4960 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 18):
Well, the number I gave did not consider the up/0 position. And I said ABOUT four.

I wasn't counting the UP position either.  Smile



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineJohnclipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

What about 737, 717 and EMB-170 flap settings?

User currently offlineDash500 From Portugal, joined May 2005, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

In the L-1011-500 we have the following detent positions:

0, 4, 10, 14, 18, 22 & 33º.

However, I never saw 14 and 18 being used. Normally the sequence for approach/landing was 0->4->10->22->33. When going from 22 to 33º, DLC would become active.

For take off they used 4º and 10º settings. For shorter runways 22º.



[Edited 2008-10-18 10:23:39]


TriStar
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4287 times:



Quoting Dash500 (Reply 21):
However, I never saw 14 and 18 being used.

If you came aboard my -500 airplane, you would notice flaps 14 used nearly all the time, for takeoff...shorter runways, flaps 22.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Just below the trim panel with the degree marks shown in Reply 21 is the "flap handle track". The track has detents machined it to them that correspond with the degree marks on the trim panels. These is at least half dozen different configurations of "flap handle tracks".

Another thing, if you stop the handle half way between 22 and 33 degrees (or any other setting)the flaps will stop there.

[Edited 2008-10-18 19:48:15]

[Edited 2008-10-18 19:49:17]

User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

In addition, not all L1011's have the same flap setting that trigger the takeoff configuration warning.

For example, SVA used flaps 18 for takeoff at all times....any other flap setting for takeoff resulted in the takeoff warning sounding, even though the airplane was originally certified for other flap configurations.

TWA, on the other hand, always used flaps 10 for takeoff...any other flap setting with a TWA airplane also resulted in a takeoff warning for an inappropriate flap setting.


25 Jetlagged : That's true of most aircraft with analogue style flap controls. Aircraft with digital flap controllers can only select defined detent positions. Of c
26 Point8six : It's more than 22 years since I last flew a L1011, but my recollection is that DLC enabled constant pitch-angle approaches and ACS 'allowed' the aircr
27 411A : Close, but no cigar. That altitude deviation was a function of the FMS thrust management mode, which minimised excessive throttle movements. With RVS
28 474218 : The L-1011-500's Active Control System (ACS) function was to unload the wings when maneuvering or gust loads were encountered. Because the -500 wing
29 411A : Indeed so, and it makes quite a difference in turbulence. However, to dispatch with ACS inoperative is a HUGE weight penalty. Having said this, it ne
30 474218 : You don't have to convince me I have been involved with the L-1011 for over 38 years. The ACS has proven to be very reliable. However, when it does f
31 411A : Don't know abot the B744, but as I recall the weight penalty is on the order of 70,000 pounds for the -500 airplane with ACS inoperative. A significa
32 474218 : With ACS inop both outboard ailerons are deflected up 10 degrees, so there is a lot of drag induced.
33 2H4 : Interesting that they would fail in the UP position. Not afraid of tempting fate, are we? 2H4
34 474218 : They don't fail in the up position. If the ACS is inop, dispatch is still possible but both outboard ailerons have to be rigged 10 degrees up. This i
35 2H4 : Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up. 2H4
36 TWAL1011727 : My dad flew them for TWA between 1980 - 1987....he absolutely loved it. KD
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