Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites  
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4938 posts, RR: 40
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5601 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I just came accross this article regarding out of autoclave composite panels first to be used on the A350-XWB. Though the composite panels which this article addresses are rather small, it still is another first in civil aviation. Will this be the next thing in composites? Any thoughts?

Link: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...a350-composite-wing-panels-to.html

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31394 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5513 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
Will this be the next thing in composites? Any thoughts?

Boeing and Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. have a lab here in Seattle at the University of Washington working on new composites that do not require autoclaves. One of them is a "powder" that is pressed into shape and is strong in all directions, negating the need to build up alternating layers for resilience.

This new material was first showed on the Lamborghini Sesto Elemento concept and might be used in the new Aventador.


User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2843 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Boeing and Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. have a lab here in Seattle at the University of Washington working on new composites that do not require autoclaves. One of them is a "powder" that is pressed into shape and is strong in all directions, negating the need to build up alternating layers for resilience.

Is this what you're talking about Stitch? http://www.aa.washington.edu/research/structures/vartm.html

As a fellow Seattlite I had no idea this research was taking place at UW. Good info there.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineQFA787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Boeing and Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A. have a lab here in Seattle at the University of Washington working on new composites that do not require autoclaves. One of them is a "powder" that is pressed into shape and is strong in all directions, negating the need to build up alternating layers for resilience.

And Boeing are actively looking at this for the 797.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10234 posts, RR: 97
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5445 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
I just came accross this article regarding out of autoclave composite panels first to be used on the A350-XWB.

Nice find my friend. Anything that takes steps out of the manufacturing process is a good thing, even if the scale is relatively small (trailing edges) so far.

Quoting QFA787380 (Reply 3):
And Boeing are actively looking at this for the 797.

I should hope so. This technology will already be flying on the Airbus A350 next year.

Rgds


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31394 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5421 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The A350's fuselage and wing panels are still cured in autoclaves, correct?

It's just these smaller parts that are incorporating these new processes.


User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 887 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
it still is another first in civil aviation

The article and the title of this thread is misleading since it refers not to out of autoclave composites, but out of autoclave pre-pregs. The 787's moveable trailing edge (flaps, flaperons, and ailerons) is made up of out-of autoclave composites, but rather than using pre-pregs it is based on resin infusion under vacuum. We don't just make a trailing edge panel out of it, we use it for primary structure, and big structure at that - 400 inch long flaps.


User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 938 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

You can get excellent results curing composites just with a vacuum bag and an oven, no clave necessary. You can't exert as much pressure on the part so consolidation isnt as good (requiring you to apply a vacuum at more regular intervals when laying up a part with a large number of material layers than you could with a clave), but for thinner parts or large awkward shaped parts MUCH less equipment is necessary. Later this morning I will be finishing the layup and putting in the oven some fairly decent sized pieces of a new light aircraft, no autoclave in sight. The material in this instance comes from ACG, the same supplier as Airbus are using cited in the article also.

User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1609 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 6):
it is based on resin infusion under vacuum

The A380 has several parts made that way and with pre-pregs. Also the aft pressure bulkhead is manufactured with a (Vacuum Assisted Process) infusion process.(Premium AEROTEC makes it also for the A350XWB and 787)



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 4):
Quoting EPA001 (Thread starter):
I just came accross this article regarding out of autoclave composite panels first to be used on the A350-XWB.

Nice find my friend.

   But shock horror, I have been making "out of autoclave" composite blocks for my samples for decades. Hope nobody tries to put me out of business with a pesky patent.  Wow!

It does look as if autoclaves are a bit of a pest if you want high production rates. Be interesting to see the relative costs of bashing tin and autoclave formed parts once the information is finally in for running processes. The autoclave equivalent of riveting your shirt to a plane once posited as a response to stress does not bear thinking about.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4938 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5096 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Following up on the issue I found some more interesting links to documents addressing out-of-autoclaves composites. There is already a lot of very interesting and highly detailed information out there. I have just listed 3 links of a quick search on Google which shows there is even a lot more information to be found on the web.  .

Link: http://www.quickstep.com.au/files/do...clave_Processing_via_Quickstep.pdf

Link: http://www.compositesworld.com/artic...oclave-prepregs-hype-or-revolution

Link: http://www.swcompositesgateway.co.uk...ew=article&id=49&Itemid=54


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic A350: First With Out-of-autoclave Parts Composites
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Gate Checks Out Of Control. posted Tue May 10 2011 15:02:38 by contrails15
Squeezing More Efficiency Out Of The MD-11 posted Thu Feb 24 2011 10:55:46 by tsugambler
Int'l DL 767 Flights Out Of Concourse T At ATL posted Sun Aug 1 2010 12:26:48 by 1337Delta764
Boeing 737-200s Operated "Out Of Limits?" posted Mon Jul 26 2010 11:41:58 by mrskyguy
Almost Out Of College Looking At Airline Mgmt Kaus posted Wed Mar 10 2010 18:50:20 by KLM672
CRJ Takeoff Out Of SNA posted Sat Nov 7 2009 12:00:28 by PIAflyer
V1 Speeds Out Of A Speedbook posted Sun Feb 8 2009 13:17:45 by LY744
Are CAs Allowed Out Of Their Seat While Taxing? posted Tue Dec 16 2008 03:56:44 by OEH68
Flame Exiting Out Of 744 APU?! posted Wed Oct 22 2008 15:30:09 by KU747
How Fast Does Air Travel Out Of A Turbofan? posted Tue Oct 7 2008 21:38:31 by Triebwerk

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format