Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Is This A Normal 747sp Takeoff Roll?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3581 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

I have read and been told, that 747sp's has pretty short takeoff rolls. Now this KAL 747sp, is using as much runway as a 747-200 and DC-10-30 on a long flight. Was it normal for 747sp's, to use this much runway?

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnAmyH4CLeM&feature=related

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1095 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5695 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Not sure about the specifics of the 747sp, but normal take of thrusts will be calculated to achieve optimum efficiency. In modern aircraft this is calculated in the FMC.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6177 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5662 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Your question has so many variables that it´s hard to answer. In general, the 747SP had amazing take-off performance, but as the post above cites, it may have been a derated take-off, the temperature might have been too high, the altitude, etc.


MGGS
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5529 times:

It's almost definitely a derated takeoff. Takeoffs at full thrust are uncommon and always have been, except maybe in the early days of jets when runways were shorter than they are now. Takeoff speeds are an exact science and aren't that difficult to calculate, so it's SOP to calculate takeoff distance based on keeping wear and tear on the engines at a minimum.

I've flown many times in my life and I don't know that I've ever experienced a full thrust takeoff.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5529 times:

It's very heavy - you can see that from the climbout. Probably a combo of hot weather and heavy weight.


- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

It's very heavy - you can see that from the climbout. Probably a combo of hot weather and heavy weight. I remember sitting in the Møvenpick beer garden near Zurich Airport watching the SAA 747SP climb right over us fully loaded for the long trip to JNB. Man they used every inch of that runway.


- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1095 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5419 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 3):
I've flown many times in my life and I don't know that I've ever experienced a full thrust takeoff.

Take any flight out of LCY. Done it in ERJ145, E190 and bae146 / avro100. Spooling to full take off thrust and then letting the breaks of is amazing! And that climb out west with the turn just after take off.... Yeee haaaa. Would love to do this in one of the BA A318s.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3393 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5390 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 3):
I've flown many times in my life and I don't know that I've ever experienced a full thrust takeoff.

And you would know this how?


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 7):
And you would know this how?

It's what he just said- he DOESN'T KNOW.
But as far as observation from the back of the plane, engine noise is the best way. Once you've made a few hundred flights, OR work on jet engines for a living, OR both, you can generally tell the difference between 85% N1 and 98%.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25056 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

Does not seem unusual to me.
Remember they are probably using reduced trust also which will increase the take-off distance.

I recall during the days United ran the 747SP to SYD, that bird would take up virtually the entire 25R length getting airborne barely abeam the AA hangars.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

QF used to fly them trans-tasman. I remember watching them belt out of WLG's 5000' runway like an F-16 on steroids. Admittedly on those routes they would've been well below MTOW.

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8468 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

There was a trip report of the Iran Air trip DAM-CCS, a lengthy leg for a 747SP. The writer said the takeoff was his longest ever!

User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 3):
I've flown many times in my life and I don't know that I've ever experienced a full thrust takeoff.

How would you know unless you asked the crew?

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 7):
And you would know this how?

It's what he just said- he DOESN'T KNOW.

Earlier in his post he says "It's almost definitely a derated takeoff. Takeoffs at full thrust are uncommon and always have been," which in my way of thinking (and Flight152's) implies that it's so unusual that he has likely not experienced one despite being an experienced passenger. Flight152 is pointing out that there's no way for him to know unless he asked, and if he had asked he would have almost certainly told us so.

If you have flown a lot you almost certainly have experienced one. I did two last week.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
But as far as observation from the back of the plane, engine noise is the best way. Once you've made a few hundred flights, OR work on jet engines for a living, OR both, you can generally tell the difference between 85% N1 and 98%.

An untrained person would not be able to do this unless they flew the same type of aircraft repetitively, and I doubt that even the best mechanic could determine this if they flew on an airplane/engine combination they didn't work on. When I sit in the back I can't tell, but then again I don't really care or pay particular attention either. Since there are so many derate possibilities (we'll derate to just below TOGA if that's the only derate available) I doubt on any given day that the vast majority of people could tell for sure if it's derated or not. In your example you might be derated to 97% N1. I doubt that anyone could determine the difference between 97% and 98% N1 on any engine from the passenger cabin with any degree of statistically valid accuracy.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Does not seem unusual to me.

It's a very heavy four engine plane; it doesn't seem unusual to me either, and certainly my experience with the 744 bears it out as not being excessive at heavy weight (like the SP, the 744 is also like a scalded ape at low weights.) I, of course, never flew the SP and if someone here has I would definitely defer to their expertise.

Quoting gasman (Reply 10):
Admittedly on those routes they would've been well below MTOW.

Correct. Four engine aircraft, including 747s, are absolute pigs on a heavyweight takeoff and in the climb as well. It's an artifact of engine-out performance requirements.


User currently offlinehal9213 From Germany, joined May 2009, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

So, guys, would you say, this is a derated takeoff, too? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThoZNxy2JZk


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3247 times:

35 second take off roll on a flight from LAX-SEL or LAX-NRT is hardly a slow takeoff. Remember that LAX-SYD takeoffs can generally last up and around a minute!

Everything seems normal to me.

UAL


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Is This A Normal 747sp Takeoff Roll?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Is This A Normal Operation? posted Sun Aug 17 2008 10:12:32 by AbleToFly
737 At 41,000ft. Is This Normal? posted Mon Feb 4 2008 08:49:09 by AirCatalonia
Is This Normal On A B737-600? ( Video) posted Fri Dec 21 2007 17:23:25 by OHLHD
Pilots... is this an unusual takeoff? posted Mon Jan 30 2006 20:05:20 by Matt72033
Is This Normal On A 747-200? posted Thu Mar 18 2004 12:38:47 by Horus
IL-62: Is This Normal? posted Mon Nov 25 2002 21:26:12 by Airportmanager
Is This Normal A340 Climb? posted Sat Oct 12 2002 02:22:20 by Airplanetire
Is This A Normal Turn? posted Mon Aug 20 2001 20:54:49 by Climbout
Is This Normal On A DC-10, I Don't Think So! posted Sat May 20 2000 10:02:27 by Aer Lingus
Parallel Takeoff, Is This Safe? posted Fri Jan 2 2009 22:37:55 by Dr.DTW

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format