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User currently offlineMaor From Israel, joined Jul 2000, 117 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1023 times:

hey guys how are you doing ??

listen i know the following question is not relevant to this forum topic but i trust you guys with your answers so here it goes..

my friend told me he joined an ual training school in chicago and i just finish high school and i am very intereseted on going to a univ or training school that trains you to become an airline pilot ..

now the training school that ual really sounds good to me ..

so i really want know what you think should i try to apply to ual's training school or should i apply to a univ so i will get the 4 years education ??hence what is better for me a training school or a univ .....

best of regards
maor.



15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineILS 15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 802 times:

I think that hands down your better off in a 4 year school. The airline field is booming, but, it's also comptetive. You want to be better than the guy next to you when you go in for an interview, and a 4 year degree really helps. I'm not really sure what training place your talking about. I know that UA has a training center in Denver where they do re-current simulator work and send all their new-hires there. The training places I know of is Flight Safety, thet're in every major city. I've heard it's a good program, but, really expensive.

Greg


User currently offlineMaor From Israel, joined Jul 2000, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 802 times:

hey man listen
my friends go to a united airlines's training school in chicago..

he tells me that i need to pass all exams with a "b" grade or better or else you get KICKED out so i dont think you really need to be btter then the next guy cos if you pass all the tests with high grades united airlines will hire ya no question asked..

what i was saying is that should i go to that kind of school ( doesnt really matter if its united training school any other airline ) or should i go to a univ ....
besides in a uals training school they pay for the tuition and you give the money to ual only when you starting getting a paid so its kinda worth it ,, dont you think


anyway can someone answer me after reading what i wrote here
...........
thanks
maor.



User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 798 times:

Hey Man....You should be doing the listening.

United Airlines has no ab initio training program. www.ualservices.com. I do not know what info your friend is telling you but it is bogus.

Factoid: If you want a job at UAL you need a 4 year gegree.

Factoid: No domestic US carrier pays for initial flight training. If it existed we should all be in such a program.

If you plan on engaging in a career as a proffesional pilot I would begin my search with www.flightsafety.com.

Forget about flying a 777 for United right now, or any time in the near or distant future. You will start at the bottom of the food chain like we all did. And if by the grace of god, and a little luck someday you MIGHT find yourself flying for a major. There are plenty of pilots out there flying for small carriers who did not make it to Delta, or United. Why are you so positive you will make it when others have not been so succesful.

Quit the "I'm gonna work for United" bullshit, and get some perspective in your life son.

You're perception is warped.



User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 786 times:

>>>Quit the "I'm gonna work for United" bullshit, and get some perspective in your life son. You're perception is warped.

I see that Maor, our resident flightsim expert and know-it-all in aviation affairs is back at it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAOR SAID:

>>>>>>>>>"hey man listen
my friends go to a united airlines's training school in chicago..
he tells me that i need to pass all exams with a "b" grade or better or else you get KICKED out so i dont think you really need to be btter then the next guy cos if you pass all the tests with high grades. united airlines will hire ya no question asked.".

First of all, Pal, what "training school" is your friend in? Is it actually United Airlines? Perhaps it is a "store front" operation that set itself up to help people prepare for United Airlines sims and interviews. Perhaps he is studying dilligently to become a Ramp Agent, CSR, or Flight Attendant at United itself. United has high standards for all their positions...last I heard. Pilot is an entirely different matter. Sounds to me like someone sold you on a rotten bill of goods (and you bit on it!).

Let me tell you a little something more about UAL and becoming a pilot. Without a doubt, they are on everyone's list as number one. Many of my squadron mates and other friends applied there. The ones with tactical backgrounds (who were accepted) had combat experience, thousands of hours, decorations to include DFCs, Air medals, and other personal awards. These were people (just my observation) that I would rate as the top 25% of fighter pilots who chose to get out. They all had college degrees, great fitness reports, were genuine leaders. There is a 'long arm of the military" whereby, if you're good enough your reputation will precede you and you have an inside track, but not a sure shot.

The transport/helo pilots that I knew of, who made the cut, had thousands of hours, same spotless records, college degrees, C-12 and IP time, and had earned their ATPs.

A summary of the military: (1) => 10 years of service, (2) 2500+ flying hours, (3) proficiency "beyond the log books",....(4) College Degree (most in engineering/physical science).

I know quite a few who got into United from the civilian route. Most worked years as CFI/flying cancelled checks/part 135/regional. While the military pilots gave 10 years for the country, the civilians sacraficed low paying jobs for the flight time. United won't look at you without a 4 year degree--end of story.

I fly with another friend with a USAF background (C-141s) who is a DC-9 Capt on reserve status. He is trying like heck to get into United, and realizes that the competiton is keen--even with his hours (7000+). He graduated cum laude from UVA.

My best advice for you, Maor, is as follows:

(1). Lose your know-it-all attitude.
(2). Brush up on your English proficiency
(3). Get a four year degree


User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 775 times:

>>>>>"besides in a uals training school they pay for the tuition and you give the money to ual only when you starting getting a paid so its kinda worth it ,, dont you think"


I only made it half way through the first part of your post, now I just read the rest of it (above). ROTFLMAO.

WHAT THE FU*K ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? UAL, last I heard, pays for all training expenses. If you have some "friends" at a "United" training academy, and this is what they told you, you ought to have a long talk with them.


User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 772 times:

My comment:

>>>" UAL Last I heard, pays for all training expenses.


That needs some clarification. Last I heard, UAL will pay your training expenses, once you have interviewed, passed the psyche eval, physical, written, etc, etc.

This pre-supposes that you have enough hours which have been paid for dearly in the 135 and/or military world. I don't think your flight sim time at FLY! will get you in the door with them, MAOR.

Unless you know of a new program that no one else does????


User currently offlineMaor From Israel, joined Jul 2000, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 1 month 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 739 times:

well...
first of all stop being such an arrogant .
i did nothing BUT asking some questions so get off my back .
i am only 18 and i have a lot of questions regarding my future in the aviation .

second matter, i have never said i know it all , all i said was that i just had alot of experinse in fly! which equalled to 0 real flight time ...
i dont have any other way to really fly ... so flying in fly! is all i can do for now!

so DONT judge me i am only asking for a little help and guidance..

for conclusion , i dont think i will EVER become a combat pilot or a military pilot for that matter

however i do think that with the right attitude and the right education and little luck and alot of flying time i could be hirred at united airlines...or any other major airline ...

and DONT make fun of my english i learnt in advanced english and got 90 in my final examination.. yet, i am not an american so i might sound weird...

btw
a question to you...dc-9capt

what are those written tests that you mentioned in your previous messaGE ??
can you tell me what kind of subjects am i been tested on (besides math)....





User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 751 times:

Okay, now you're starting to sound a little more in tune with reality.

Here is what I would do in your shoes. I went NROTC when I was your age, but the market is good enough today that it wouldn't matter whether you went military or civilian into the cockpit. I am speaking of this next part from word of mouth and from my own reading--I haven't been through this kind of program, but.....

I would explore (a) Embry Riddle, (b) Purdue, (c) Oklahoma State, and (d) Southern Illinois University. They have outstanding aviation management programs. From what I know, these programs give you the lattitude to work on your ratings and instruct as a CFI while in school. You will be given the opportunity to pick up ME time and you will, furthermore, have the opportunity to intern in the OPS dept of some major airlines over the summers. You will leave with a lot of hours and a four year degree.

Never say never, but...realistically after completion of school you will most likely explore the possibility of getting on with a 135 outfit or regional. You probably won't get looked at or interviewed by the majors yet. Five years from now, who knows? Hey, gotta pay your dues from the bottom...low pay, but high time. I would say, from what I see today, that realistically you can get into the right seat of regionals with far less than 1000TT (as long as you have 100+ hours of ME time). Reasonably, the upgrade time in the regionals goes anywhere from 6 to 24 months (avg about 12). Regionals don't expect you to stay there long, in fact it's a farm club system. Thus, the door revolves regularly.

In your case, you are 18. Save your dough and start flying. Get a job at the FBO in the summer fueling and towing planes if you don't intern. As much exposure to the airport as possible builds contacts and a knowledge base.

Worry about that Bachelor's Degree next. Continue getting your ratings on the side. Make sure you are in the university flying club and spend all your available time there as much as possible. Don't forget though, that it don't mean squat unless you can hang a sheepskin on the wall after four years (ie earn a degree) so don't lose your focus.

Contact a guy by the name of Purdue Arrow on the board here. His life long dream is to fly for AA. He has just earned his CFI and will be instructing at Purdue while he continues to earn his degree. Right now the difference between him and you is that HE has a game plan.

Someone may get real upset over this, but...

I cannot recommend Comair, Flight Safety (unless it's a type rating), Sparta, or any one of those schools that do a LOT of advertising. San Juan College (Mesa) I don't know about. See, it seems to me that those types of schools (Comair) paint pretty pictures of fresh faced FOs who ab-initioed in less than 2 years to glamour. It ain't like that, and those academies seem like they are after your hard earned dough. Someone may argue with me, but just beware, Maor. Your best bet is to get a four year degree from an established, accredited, not-for-profit school. Just my 2 cents.

Lots of guys/gals here to help you, Maor. We don't really like to pass along the advice that got us to where we are to have you respond by "i think you are wrong."

As far as writtens go. If you are asked to an interview, the airline will normally give you the same written test questions that come from the ATP (get a Gleim prep book for that). You may get a Wunderlich test (IQ) and the MMPI--no way to study for either, you either know it or you don't.

Also, I posted that United story to let you know that you have to be realistic. Don't give up, don't put all your eggs in one basket. But do do your research.



User currently offlineMaor From Israel, joined Jul 2000, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (14 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 725 times:

hey DC-9CAPT how are you ??

listen i am in a quandary so if you dont mind i'll ask you a couple of questions...

in your last message you wrote :
I would explore (a) Embry Riddle, (b) Purdue, (c) Oklahoma State, and (d) Southern Illinois University

and you also said i need a degree ... so
i wanna ask ya do those univ's provides me both aviation training ( all the rating and stuff) and classes for my degree or do they provide me only the aviation training ??

now another thing .. maybe i misunderstood you so dont be upset at me ....

my plan is to finish the univ and then proceed to a regional airline in order to cumulate hours for my atp ... is it possible or first i need to obtain the atpl and then apply to a regional airline ? i really dont want to be a flight instructor so in case i cant be hired by a regional airline what are my options besides a flight instructor ?

about working at the airports or fbo thing , well all i can say is " no can do" .. becuase i am about to be drafted to the army ...

btw i red the united airlines interview ... sad.. when i finished reading the story i had alot of doubts .. about being hired by united for the next 20 years   but i stop to hope and aim for the best


thats it for me for this time ..

hope you'll answer my questions ..

best of regards..
ince.



User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (14 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 721 times:

>>>>>and you also said i need a degree ... so
i wanna ask ya do those univ's provides me both aviation training ( all the rating and stuff) and classes for my degree or do they provide me only the aviation training ??

--I am pretty sure that they do. Again, I would suggest that you ask Purdue Arrow. Just do a search for IND trip reports, his name will come up, go to his profile and he has a web site and e-mail.


>>>>>>about working at the airports or fbo thing , well all i can say is " no can do" .. becuase i am about to be drafted to the army ...

--The United States hasn't had a draft since 1972. I presume you are from Israel? Once you get out of your stint in the Army, working at an airport is an option while you are going to school.


>>>>>>my plan is to finish the univ and then proceed to a regional airline in order to cumulate hours for my atp ... is it possible or first i need to obtain the atpl and then apply to a regional airline ? i really dont want to be a flight instructor so in case i cant be hired by a regional airline what are my options besides a flight instructor ?

-- Yes, this is a solid plan--in part. However do not rule out instructing as a lot of people do. This is a real good time builder, and people in school who do it part time, wind up with a lot of hours. Basically you are looking at (1). PPL, (2). IFR, (3). Commercial, (4) CFI, and (5) ME. You are going to need minimum 250 hours for your commercial before you can start getting paid. Most people who choose to do this with such low time, and not instruct end up towing banners and hauling sky divers. Some guys/gals offer to "volunteer" to sit right seat on 421s, Beech 99s, Metros, etc to build time. Again, I would look at instructing and the opportunity to build ME time to get "paid" while you are building hours.

>>>>>>>btw i red the united airlines interview ... sad.. when i finished reading the story i had alot of doubts ..about being hired by united for the next 20 years.

--Never give up hope. Just go into the interview with your "is dotted" and your "ts crossed". The hours calculation seems to be an ball buster at United.
I know of a KC-130 squadron Operations Officer (Maj) with an impeccable record who went into his UAL interview. He wound up getting into a pissing match over his hours calculation with an HR type and, as you may guess, doesn't fly the friendly skies. He is at FEDEX--after numerous remarks (prior to his UAL interview) about how he hates flying at night. No one knows how United hires. I never applied at UAL since I wanted to fly with my great hometown carrier. Now I am making 40% less than a DC-9 Capt at any other major. If you get called in for an interview there, you are good. If Mars and Venus are aligned, you may get hired. Worry about inteview preps down the road. One step at a time. Worry about your Solo then your written then your PPL check ride. Again, do your research, plan to fly and fly your plan.


User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 723 times:

You can get into the right seat of a regional with less than 1,000 hours as long as you have significant ME time. Some regionals will take a look at you with 500TT and 100ME. Some have mentioned less TT at others.

You will have to have a 1st Class Medical and should be able to answer ATP questions--in fact the interview will probably have questions right from the ATP.
Do you have to have the ATP? No. But once you get 1500 hrs and want to sit left seat---well, you better have it. But to get into the door, no.


User currently offlineMaor From Israel, joined Jul 2000, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (14 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 700 times:

hey dear DC-9CAPT again thank you very much for agreeing to answer my questions ..

you were right i am from israel .. and i have to serve in the army for 3 years ...(bummer)..
anyways

i have few annyoing questions i know its related to aircrafts type
whats a TT and ME is ME = multi engine ?

another thing .. iwhen i will finish the univ i will probably will have like 250-300 hours .. which like 50 or 60 of em will be on a mulit engine plane..

so do those 50-60 hours in the me and the rest of the time on a tt wont be enough to be hired by a regional airline ?
another thing do you recommand me to starting preparing to my atp written test from the moment i'll get the comm license??

thats it for now
best of regards

maor.


User currently offlineMaor From Israel, joined Jul 2000, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 687 times:

hey dc-9capt
it seems as you forgot my question above ( before this message)......

so can you please do that if you want...

thanks alot..


another thing in addition to the question above

i want to ask..

do you think the written test that any major airline gives ya is hard ????

thanks 4 everything

maor.


User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 674 times:

>>>>another thing .. when i will finish the univ will probably will have like 250-300 hours .. which like 50 or 60 of em will be on a mulit engine plane..

----Good on ya.

-----------------------------------------------------

>>>>so do those 50-60 hours in the me and the rest of the time on a tt wont be enough to be hired by a regional airline ?

----I do not know. It's up to the airline that hires you. I ran into my friend's bro yesterday who is an ATR Capt for COEX. He knew of someone who just got hired with 600tt and 100me. His statement to me was (and I quote): "There are no hiring mins at Continental Express". Take that for what it's worth. I don't have a crystal ball for the future. For all I know, 5 years from now I may be off reserve status. I may be at UPS. I may be furloughed. The age 60 rule may get lifted. We may get 717s.

Forecasts are good for continued pilot hiring and the regionals are going to be in the hurt locker as the door revolves. It would really help your case if you build up a network of contacts. Friends on the inside can get your resume to the top of the heap and help influence the hiring decision. Especially at a small company.

With 250/50 you can get a job flying checks in a twin, perhaps (commander/mu2/421) and within a few months you can bolt for bigger iron.

Have you checked out Doug Taylor's site http://www.jetcareers.com? That site is awesome--as I am helping my younger cousin get started on an aviation career and because I keep my eyes on the job market.
-----------------------------------------------------


another thing do you recommand me to starting preparing to my atp written test from the moment i'll get the comm license??

----Start working on your PPL written first. Build up your hours. At the 125 mark then you can get your IFR.
At 250 get your commercial.

The ATP is a master's level rating. The knowledge it tests you on is, largely cumulative. Yes, there are study guides to help you get fresh, but I would really recommend that you take one step at a time as an approach to flying.


User currently offlineMaor From Israel, joined Jul 2000, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (14 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 658 times:

only when i reach 125 hours in a me i'll starting preparing to the ifr test ?!
i did NOT know that ... i thought that when i reach the 50 hours i could start my ifr training ..
yes i have checked out the website you mention already ...

pretty nice..
i gotta tell you my friend ... its hard... really hard..
but hey thats life ..

i dont know how will i get a friends to help me get a job at a regional airline and 600tt is alot ... i have no idea what to do..
i dont want to instruct cos i am not build up to it ...
i dont know what to tell ya ..
i didnt lose hope or anything...
its just its really tough..




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