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IAD Metro Station Going To Be Aboveground  
User currently offlineFRAIAD From Germany, joined Feb 2011, 64 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) has decided today (11-1 vote by the board) to endorse a plan by Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and locate the Dulles Metro station aboveground close to the daily parking garage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...7/19/gIQADdEaPI_story.html?hpid=z2

I don't think it's ideal because the station will be relatively far away from the terminal but if it's necessary to secure phase two of the Silver Line project, I'm fine with it. From my perspective, it is going to be so much better to be able to take one Metro line from downtown DC to IAD so I can live with the inconvenience of walking a little bit. I remember a lot of people here complaining about this option but I honestly think it's not going to be that bad. Your thoughts?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4647 times:

Some sort of option is long long overdue. Maybe they can build a connector with moving sidewalks to connect to the terminal. Also DCA has a somewhat lengthy walk if your leaving on JB AT SY F9 etc from the metro stop to that terminal so if people can do that im sure the walk will be done at IAD  


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4575 times:
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I've seen a sketch ( I believe on the Dullescorrider.com web site -- I'll try to find it ) of the proposed above-ground station which will be architectually similar to Daily #1 and 2.

The station will also attach to the underground walkway ( that goes from Daily #1 to the Main terminal ) already in place. So, big bucks will be saved.


User currently offlineFRAIAD From Germany, joined Feb 2011, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

There are a couple of airports in the US where you're not really at the terminal when you arrive on a train, for example: BOS (shuttle bus from the blue line airport station), JFK (Airtrain from the subway, LIRR), EWR (Airtrain from the railroad station), BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station). And those are some that actually have a good public transportation option. The problem for IAD IMHO is just the comparison with DCA where the situation is pretty perfect. As a big fan of IAD, I'm really happy that the chances for the Silver Line are much better now. And I think everybody who has ever experienced the Washington Flyer bus-Orange Line-nighmare will agree.

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7773 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

I remember people hemming and hawing about this. I also understand the importance of having better transit options at Dulles as well.

But let's not kid ourselves the option is really more about having a station at Dulles vs. not having one.... and running a shuttle bus from Herndon. It'll be one long ride from Metro Center to Dulles and I'd be willing to be not a lot of people will be doing that trip. Even from Roslyn or Ballston its going to be a long ride, but I can easily see a lot more trips starting in Arlington County than DC headed to Dulles. The real value to the silver line is that it finally give the Tyson's/Herndon/Dulles corridor a much needed transit upgrade. And even then the routing through the Tyson's area is elevated.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineLawair From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

This whole debate was a little silly. Both options had some walking involved. And the above ground option is going to mean a distance of just over 1000 feet to the terminal, which is essentially the amount of walking people generally do from their cars to the train on some other metro stations anyway (ie. Greenbelt). Plus if you're taking the Metro to the airport, you're someone who likely already walked that same distance with a small carry-on bag to get to the train station. You're accustomed to some light walking, even with a small rolling bag.

I don't remember what the precise difference in distance was between the above and below ground options, but my guess is it would be roughly 500-600 feet. That seems worth the money savings to me anyway, particularly when 500-600 feet is only the length of a Metro station platform.

[Edited 2011-07-20 14:50:28]

User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Absolutely disappointed. The short-sighted vision is representative of the flaws in our country, and the reason why we have such crappy infrastructure everywhere. They have ONE opportunity to do this right; it will last decades. They should spend the extra $300 million and build the underground station as close to the terminal as possible.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 1):
Maybe they can build a connector with moving sidewalks to connect to the terminal.

There already is, underground to the parking lot. This will connect to that.

But for a traveller taking the Metro to Dulles:
45 minute ride from downtown DC
Down an escalator from the train platform to below ground.
Walk through the underground tunnel to the station
Up an escalator to the ground level
Enter the Main Terminal on the arrivals level.
Up an escalator to the check-in level.
Down an escalator to the security checkpoint
Down an escalator to the aero Train
Up an escalator to the concourse (and another walk through a tunnel if you're flying United)

Sounds like a win for our urban planners!!!! Sarcasm.

The ONLY advantage to this is that you'll get some kick-ass direct views from the Metro platform of the Main Terminal.


User currently offlineFRAIAD From Germany, joined Feb 2011, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4399 times:

Btw: A while ago, the website dcist.com had some information about the 428 new cars Metro will get between 2013 and 2016 (300 for replacement, the rest for the Dulles route):

http://dcist.com/2011/07/video_first_look_inside_new_metro_c.php

They look pretty nice. Now, they just need to add the red-white-blue ribbon around the car's front...that's a must!


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4391 times:

I am disappointed but not a deal killer. At least the stop is AT the airport. Glad to have the Silver Line to IAD.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Americans love to waste money on crap all the time, why can't we waste it on 21st century infrastructure at one of the country's most important airports? In our nation's capital to boot!

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7773 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4328 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 9):
Americans love to waste money on crap all the time, why can't we waste it on 21st century infrastructure at one of the country's most important airports? In our nation's capital to boot!

Not when it involves the possibility of raising taxes or building something that may possibly (but really won't) lower my property values.

I see your point and agree with you fully. But I really see it as having the above ground station by the parking garages, with an extended walk through a pre-existing tunnel w/ moving sidewalks, vs. not having a station at the airport and a ~ 20 minute shuttle bus ride from Herndon. .



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

better than nothing, but maybe someday, people will wonder if we couldn't have come up with the money somehow.

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
I'm really happy that the chances for the Silver Line are much better now. And I think everybody who has ever experienced the Washington Flyer bus-Orange Line-nighmare will agree.

Until WMATA comes up with a plan for how to juggle the orange, blue and silver all on the same line, it'll still be a nightmare.

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station).

Depends on which train you take.


User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1459 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

I would not expect anything different from the board. They have continuously put the needs of the passengers aside to build their own ridiculous empire. The tunnel from the C station to the C terminal. The Rube Goldberg zigzag walk from the A station to the UAX gates and the lack of building the "new" C and D terminal to replace the current terminal for UA. It is a shame that IAD is the nations capital and UA brings in a significant amount of traffic, tourism and dollars to NOVA but yet the board builds the B gates for the other carriers.

It just seems fitting that the largest airport in the Washington area is as dysfunctional as Washington D.C. politics.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4266 times:
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Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 2):
I've seen a sketch ( I believe on the Dullescorrider.com web site -- I'll try to find it ) of the proposed above-ground station which will be architectually similar to Daily #1 and 2.

It's so busy here today that this is the best I can do on short notice.

Both underground (green) and aerial (pink) alignments [from the MWAA web site]



Cross-section of IAD Hourly Parking Lot with both underground and aerial alignments [from the MWAA web site]


User currently offlineauroralives From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4254 times:

Quoting Lawair (Reply 5):
I don't remember what the precise difference in distance was between the above and below ground options, but my guess is it would be roughly 500-600 feet.

Bang on... I remember seeing this diagram a few months ago...

http://www.mwaa.com/3785.htm


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12424 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
There are a couple of airports in the US where you're not really at the terminal when you arrive on a train, for example: BOS (shuttle bus from the blue line airport station), JFK (Airtrain from the subway, LIRR), EWR (Airtrain from the railroad station), BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station).

Yeah, but the benchmark is FRA, AMS, etc.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Absolutely disappointed. The short-sighted vision is representative of the flaws in our country, and the reason why we have such crappy infrastructure everywhere. They have ONE opportunity to do this right; it will last decades. They should spend the extra $300 million and build the underground station as close to the terminal as possible.

  

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
But for a traveller taking the Metro to Dulles:
45 minute ride from downtown DC
Down an escalator from the train platform to below ground.
Walk through the underground tunnel to the station
Up an escalator to the ground level
Enter the Main Terminal on the arrivals level.
Up an escalator to the check-in level.
Down an escalator to the security checkpoint
Down an escalator to the aero Train
Up an escalator to the concourse (and another walk through a tunnel if you're flying United)

Seems like a bonanza for the sign makers, sigh...

Quoting tharanga (Reply 11):
better than nothing, but maybe someday, people will wonder if we couldn't have come up with the money somehow.

What are the odds that the IAD station won't get axed in the future?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4139 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
What are the odds that the IAD station won't get axed in the future?

Actually, IAD isn't the end of the Metro Silver Line.

Washington-Dulles straddles two county's lines (Fairfax and Loudoun) and there are new stations planned before and after the IAD stop.

So -- once this gets rolling, local politics will prevent it from stopping before completion.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12424 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 16):
Actually, IAD isn't the end of the Metro Silver Line.

Washington-Dulles straddles two county's lines (Fairfax and Loudoun) and there are new stations planned before and after the IAD stop.

So -- once this gets rolling, local politics will prevent it from stopping before completion.

Thanks for the clarification.

I thought IAD was a 'stub line' that could be bypassed.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineontime From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4100 times:

Can I ask why it would not have been possible to have aerial tracks make a perpendicular approach headed southbound to the east side of the main terminal, where the front of the arriving train would have been directly at (or much closer) to the easternmost entrance to the main terminal? At least that way many passengers would have to do far less walking, and I presume the aerial tracks would not interfere with the sight lines for the terminal, especially if the station design had the same "swoop" of the terminal.

I agree with the posters above who say this is a missed opportunity and a serious loss of time to mass transit users. They would never consider having the passenger auto dropoffs be 1000 feet from the main terminal, so there is no reason to consider placing the metro station that far away.


User currently offlineFRAIAD From Germany, joined Feb 2011, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
Yeah, but the benchmark is FRA, AMS, etc.

True, but it's not necessarily a short trip at FRA (my home airport) if you arrive at the train station (especially the long distance train station) and your airline is located at Terminal 2 (even worse with regard to the future Terminal 3). I think it's the problem of every huge airport (including IAD) that the distances between check-in, gates, other infrastructure etc. get longer and longer. This is true in particular for airports that are not clean-sheet-designs but have grown step by step over decades. I haven't been to AMS though so I can't comment on the situation there.

I think the cross-section plan in kgaiflyer's post shows that the difference between the two discussed station locations is actually not that big. And washingtonian mentioned rightly that it's a lot of walking anyway. Generally, air travel is such a pain these days that those couple of feet are not going to make any difference for me.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
It just seems fitting that the largest airport in the Washington area is as dysfunctional as Washington D.C. politics.

I strongly disagree regarding DC politics but that's just my opinion. I definitely agree with you though that concourse C/D should be a priority for the MWAA. Other than that, IAD is a pretty nice airport now.


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4013 times:

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) has decided today (11-1 vote by the board) to endorse a plan by Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and locate the Dulles Metro station aboveground close to the daily parking garage.

Disappointed, obviously, but better than the current solution. I have taken the underground connection many times from the Daily Garage and it's not a terrible experience (unless there's water filtration which happens often!). Will be a great asset to have one-ride connection at last!

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):
And I think everybody who has ever experienced the Washington Flyer bus-Orange Line-nighmare will agree.

For what it is, the Flyer/Orange Line combo isn't that bad...provided that you allow yourself plenty of time to make your flight!


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3853 times:
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Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 19):
Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
It just seems fitting that the largest airport in the Washington area is as dysfunctional as Washington D.C. politics.

I strongly disagree regarding DC politics but that's just my opinion.

You're right. Democrats and Republicans are sharing pitchers of beer as we speak.

And Marion Berry and Adrian Fenty -- as DC Mayors -- were as honest as the days are long.   (sarcasm)


User currently offlinepanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Truly amazing any transportation infrastructure in our fair country (USA, USA, USA!) ever, ever gets planned, funded, and bulit timely and effectively. Not that we couldn't do it right, but given the political and jurisdictional disputes (Dulles sure makes for a great example of this), things ain't going to get better anytime soon. So, I guess anything, even an above-ground station, is a positive.

"Partnering," working with the private sector to figure out how to give and take to keep down the costs, seems to be the buzz word re: the Dulles Silver Line. Remember, FedEx until recently, or are they still doing it, flew a morning 757 from Dulles to National. Maybe they'll jump in and figure out how to use the rails to put on some of their own cars and deliver packages to downtown in the wee hours of the morning!


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Down an escalator from the train platform to below ground.
Walk through the underground tunnel to the station
Up an escalator to the ground level
Enter the Main Terminal on the arrivals level.
Up an escalator to the check-in level.
Down an escalator to the security checkpoint
Down an escalator to the aero Train
Up an escalator to the concourse (and another walk through a tunnel if you're flying United)

Everyone who parks in Garage #1 does all this already. It's less than ideal, but it's either this or nothing at all. MWAA has grossly mismanaged the Silver Line project and allow costs to spiral out of control....something had to give.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

TOTAL FAILURE!!!!!


And I mean total.


If you're not going to do it right, DON'T DO IT AT ALL. This station is not going to be there "for now, until we have the money to put it in the best place for it", it's going to be there for eternity. If it's expensive, then wait until you can afford it.

The thing that burns me up the most is that it's the people in Fairfax County and Loudoun County that are telling Dulles to put it underground to save money, when clearly, the people in Fairfax and Loudoun aren't the ones that are going to be using the subway to get to the airport anyway. So, once again, Loudoun and Fairfax screw the rest of the area with their shortsightedness. (If Fairfax knew how to plan in the first place, the Orange line would have gone to Dulles way back in the 80s.

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 3):

There are a couple of airports in the US where you're not really at the terminal when you arrive on a train, for example: BOS (shuttle bus from the blue line airport station), JFK (Airtrain from the subway, LIRR), EWR (Airtrain from the railroad station), BWI (shuttle bus from the railroad station). And those are some that actually have a good public transportation option.

And to think that we could have learned from the mistakes of others...



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
25 FlyPNS1 : Which will be NEVER. The longer you wait to build it, the more expensive it will become. Except the primary point of the silver line is NOT to serve
26 D L X : SO, is the goal to just build it, even if you build it so it doesn't work? I don't think it is. That is what people have said very recently to convin
27 AA777 : Moving it over there is not a big deal. Many airports are set up such that the walk to the train is not just 2 steps from the terminal. We need to get
28 christao17 : Seems like a whole lot of fuss for what is, at the end of the day, a difference of only 600 feet. Not 600 feet in the outdoors, mind you, but 600 feet
29 FRAIAD : Absolutely correct. I cannot believe that these couple of miles are going to cost that much. Especially if you look at the actual location: Apart fro
30 tharanga : While that's true, more of the traffic will be to/from Tysons, I think.
31 DCA-ROCguy : Maybe you missed FlyPNS1's point? It's not a matter of "what you said," but a point of fact. A chunk of the funding for the Dulles Metro Station is c
32 bjorn14 : When Chicago extended the "EL" out to MDW surrounding property values went up significantly. I remember when they opened the Springfield/Franconia st
33 apodino : Interesting comment, because MDW is the airport I instantly thought of when I saw this plan. It's not that bad a plan, just a walk through a parking
34 DesertJets : Why did this move over to tech/ops?? my comment was slightly tongue in cheek, but one that opponents to transit projects make. Any well thought out tr
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