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737NG Flight Deck Display Configurations  
User currently offlineWestJetForLife From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 814 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

Hello, everyone. I have another question to ask in regards to the display configuration on the 737NG.

So, as a lot of people know, the 737NG has two types of flight deck display configuration: the PFD/ND "default" configuration and the "Southwest" configuration, which I believe is slowly being phased out due to RNP requirements. I use WN as an example because they're the first airline that comes to mind when I think of the 'classic-layout' configuration.

The "Southwest" configuration has all of the EICAS information on the top-center DU, located between the Captain's and First Officer's navigation/altitude display. The PFD/ND configuration has the EICAS information split between the upper and lower DUs.

Here's my question: can an airline have a 'hybrid' 737NG flight deck configuration, where all the EICAS information is on the upper DU whilst retaining the PFD/ND RNP layout, or is the avionic software logic 'locked' in such a way that it's one or the other?

I really appreciate the help, guys.

Nik


I need a drink.
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

If it does not have to be side-by-side as it is with WN, then you can just press ENG button to cycle into condensed display mode.

If it is possible to order side-by-side display and PFD/ND config, I imagine it cant be hard for Boeing to set the software up this way...



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3148 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
Here's my question: can an airline have a 'hybrid' 737NG flight deck configuration, where all the EICAS information is on the upper DU whilst retaining the PFD/ND RNP layout, or is the avionic software logic 'locked' in such a way that it's one or the other?


In short you can have the information displayed in the lav if you wanted to put a display there or anywhere else and in any configuration you would want.
In long it is a matter paying for the software changes, programing and certification(if required). The costs would be quite expensive I would suspect. We are talking computer driven here, you in theory could have a selector switch or other input means to have many display configurations if you wanted to pay for. Second of all you would be developing yourself an orphan when software updates come along unless you had a large fleet in which to distribute the costs, sort of the expenses that keeps on taking so to speak.

Okie


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
The "Southwest" configuration has all of the EICAS information on the top-center DU, located between the Captain's and First Officer's navigation/altitude display.

Technically, no 737NG has an EICAS system...it has engine indication but not the CAS (Crew Alerting System) part.

Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
Here's my question: can an airline have a 'hybrid' 737NG flight deck configuration, where all the EICAS information is on the upper DU whilst retaining the PFD/ND RNP layout, or is the avionic software logic 'locked' in such a way that it's one or the other?

That option does not exist in current software. As others have noted, there is no technical reason it can't be done but the certification hurdles would be pretty severe and the cost very high.

Tom.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5913 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

No, this is not currently possible. The DEU's come with either version of the software loaded; you can't mix and match what you like from each half. You can reinstall the software for PFD/ND, or you can install the software for Old-Skool, but not a hybrid of the two.

Incidentally, Continental is also a large-fleet operator of 737NG's that uses the old timey steam gauge layout....


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2839 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
Quoting WestJetForLife (Thread starter):
The "Southwest" configuration has all of the EICAS information on the top-center DU, located between the Captain's and First Officer's navigation/altitude display.

Technically, no 737NG has an EICAS system...it has engine indication but not the CAS (Crew Alerting System) part.

DEFINITELY one of the ways the A-320 series surpasses any 737.

Has Boeing considered making a real EICAS system available for the 737, Tom? I grasp the "commonality with earlier models argument," but it is a huge improvement over the legacy 737 "split annunciator; search for the light" design.


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

The 737's digital displays can display anything the customer wants. The limiting factor is how much the customer wants to spend to get the display they want. To date, excepting WN, no other airline has been willing to put up the dollars to have something different than the "baseline" Boeing offering. WN negotiated the "steam gauge" option w/Boeing; hence, there are essentially only those two options.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
Has Boeing considered making a real EICAS system available for the 737, Tom? I grasp the "commonality with earlier models argument," but it is a huge improvement over the legacy 737 "split annunciator; search for the light" design.

Yes, Boeing investigated that option; however, the FAA (at least at that time) required a "new" type certificate if Boeing went that route. Since no airline was willing to help pay for the "new" certification process, that option was never pursued. Reportedly it was not difficult to adapt the 737 warning systems into an EICAS type system. The limiting factor was marketing and costs given the FAA position at that time.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
DEFINITELY one of the ways the A-320 series surpasses any 737.

You'd hope so...the warning design of the 737 predates the A320 by about 20 years.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
Has Boeing considered making a real EICAS system available for the 737, Tom?

I'm sure somebody considered it but, as AAR90 described, I don't think there's any way to make it pay.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 6):
To date, excepting WN, no other airline has been willing to put up the dollars to have something different than the "baseline" Boeing offering. WN negotiated the "steam gauge" option w/Boeing; hence, there are essentially only those two options.

WN isn't the only one using the EFIS display format.

Tom.


User currently offlineWestJetForLife From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4656 times:

Thanks for the responses, guys!

Nik



I need a drink.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
WN isn't the only one using the EFIS display format.

Never said they were. They were the airline that negotiated for that option; hence, they "paid" for it to be developed and offered. Not in direct cash terms, but somewhere in their negotiated price(s). Once "developed" it became an option others could purchase... and some have.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 9):
and some have.

Is there a list somewhere, or do you know? Beside WN and CO?



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4418 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Any way to get a pic of what you guys are talking about WRT the "Old school" guages that WN has? I'm going to do a search here but if you have anything specific that points out the differences I would appreciate it just in case I don't notice.

EDIT: Nevermind I spotted the difference right away.

[Edited 2011-09-19 10:03:47]


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