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LAX-CDG Route Planning  
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2664 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Why do CDG flights to LAX (or vice-cersa) often fly over Greenland, ie a "Polar" route.
I know this is to save time (shorter route), but when the route is sometimes more to the South, the flight is finally not longer.
Your thoughts?


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15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4392 times:
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Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):

It is all about wind. Over the north atlantic you have strong jetstreams. On the westbound part you fly against the wind, so you fly a detour to avoid the headwinds, but the flight is still shorter (flight time wise). The distance maybe longer, but the shorter the flight time, the less fuel you use.
On the eastbound flight you want to use the strong winds as tailwinds, so you fly a route where you have strong tailwinds. Make the flight shorter (flight time wise)... So a detour in aviation can mean reducing flight time - because of the winds.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Thanks, interesting.
So, CDG-LAX route is "Polar" whereas LAX-CDG is "Regular"
So, the "Polar" route is longer (in term of distance). How much longer compared to the "regular" route?



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User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4250 times:
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Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
So, CDG-LAX route is "Polar" whereas LAX-CDG is "Regular"

I wouldn't call it polar route. It is further to the north. Polar is when you are very close to the North Pole.

You cannot say in general how much longer it will be. It depends on the wind. So it changes everyday again.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Thanks Wilco for the info!


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User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

To actually fly over the North Pole, you'd have to find a flight like DXB-SFO/LAX and be lucky. My friend flew DXB-LAX and the captain announced that they flew within 3 miles of the North Pole.

[Edited 2011-09-22 03:56:08]


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User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4110 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
To actually fly over the North Pole,

Yes. Or like LH Cargo did from Germany or GOT to FAI. They usually flew close or over the North Pole.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently onlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

According to FAA, a route is polar if it is north of 78 degrees north. Since that is further north of almost anywhere in N. America or even Greenland, I doubt AF ventures into this territory. In fact, are there any polar routes from Europe to N. America? Did the SVO-SEA flight go that north?

User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 6):
Yes. Or like LH Cargo did from Germany or GOT to FAI. They usually flew close or over the North Pole.

Unfortunately, a lot of us here won't have a chance to fly LH Cargo!  



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4063 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
Unfortunately, a lot of us here won't have a chance to fly LH Cargo!  

True. And these days they don't fly to FAI anymore, so they don't use the polar route anymore anyway. But leftyboarder asked:

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 7):
In fact, are there any polar routes from Europe to N. America?

So I said that LH cargo used to... But not anymore.

My furthest north was 76°N on a flight from FRA to SEA due to the strong headwinds.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3918 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3596 times:
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Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 7):
In fact, are there any polar routes from Europe to N. America?

If it isn't a polar route, Condor's FRA-ANC has to come very close.



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User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 7):
In fact, are there any polar routes from Europe to N. America?

Expanding on this, what are the main polar passenger routes?

DXB-LAX/SFO was mentioned.

Also, are there any that go this close to the south pole? I know that is ETOPS no-go zone, but could a quad do it?


User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
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Quoting bonusonus (Reply 11):
Also, are there any that go this close to the south pole? I know that is ETOPS no-go zone, but could a quad do it?

The flight SYD-EZE is flown by 744 and goes rather far south... But not near the South Pole:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=syd-eze&MS=wls&DU=mi

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24796 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 10):
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 7):
In fact, are there any polar routes from Europe to N. America?

If it isn't a polar route, Condor's FRA-ANC has to come very close.

If they use the great circle route, the closest point to the Pole is about 400 nm.


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16991 posts, RR: 67
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 11):
Expanding on this, what are the main polar passenger routes?

DXB-LAX/SFO was mentioned.

JFK-HKG. You typically fly straight north from JFK, skirt the actual pole, then straight south to HKG.

EWR-SIN.

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 11):
Also, are there any that go this close to the south pole? I know that is ETOPS no-go zone, but could a quad do it?

There aren't really any "south polar routes" because the geography of the destinations doesn't require it.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4854 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months ago) and read 2887 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
There aren't really any "south polar routes" because the geography of the destinations doesn't require it.

also there are no alternate landing facilities

and

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 12):
?

The flight SYD-EZE is flown by 744 and goes rather far south... But not near the South Pole:

I believe the Australian regulator does not allow flights south of 60 degrees although I saw a flight track for a SYD-EZE flight that went to about 62 degrees south.


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