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757 Wet Tail?  
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

So the other day I was in the stab compartment doing a stab jack screw inspection and looking at the horz. stab I was wondering if Boeing had ever designed the stab to be used as a fuel tank like the 747-400 and Airbus. Some of the inpsection plates look like they could be used to mount a boost pump and fuel quanity wire harness. Just wondering.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/boeing767mech/100_0743.jpg

If you look at the photo you can see the panels in question.

David


Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29653 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7141 times:
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It may have been a consideration, but it was never offered as an option.

User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4057 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7038 times:

I think it was considered when they proposed a longer range version of the -200 prior to shutting the line down.




If I remember correctly Boeing was suggesting using the -300 wing and higher gross weight, updated cockpit similar to the 764 and a stabiliser fuel tank (2000 gallons ?)



There may have been an engine upgrade as well.



A great shame there was a temporary lull in demand and they shut the line down.



Such a revamped version would still be selling well today.



Great Picture by the way, could you post more like that, of places in Aircraft that people rarely see ?



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6916 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
Great Picture by the way, could you post more like that, of places in Aircraft that people rarely see

Thanks, nice thing about having cargo pants for the uniform is I can keep my digital camera with me. Helps when I have questions like this one.


This was a early 757 so I wonder if they didn't think about making a wet tail early on, but never got the interest from the airlines.


David

[Edited 2011-09-24 00:23:18]


Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineairport1970 From United States of America, joined exactly 3 years ago today! , 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

Heyya... please keep the inside pictures coming!
Everyone here is obviously a .nut but not everyone knows how these beasts work. It would be cool if you could snap a shot whenever and give a quick overview of what we are looking at.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6435 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):

A great shame there was a temporary lull in demand and they shut the line down.

True.....No one thought the demand would rise again......

Quoting airport1970 (Reply 4):
. please keep the inside pictures coming!

True these Inside pics sure are excellent.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Quoting airport1970 (Reply 4):
Heyya... please keep the inside pictures coming!

Here's what I've got.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/442/20050519062.jpg
This is inside the top of the strut on a 737-Classic. The giant green thing is the thust link...what's interesting here is the fuse pin (pointed at by the silver placard). The fuse pin is at the top of the thrust link and is designed to break away if the strut is overloaded, rather than tearing open the wingbox. The various tubes are hydraulic, fire protection, and fuel.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6953/20050519036.jpg

This is the inside of the trailing edge of a 737-Classic, somewhere between the strut and the body, with the flaps down. It shows how tightly packed this area is. The big green tube is the flap driveshaft. Behind that is the fire protection supply (big white tube) and the hydraulic supply (silver with yellow/blue tape). Behind that are smaller hydraulic tubes providing power to individual control surfaces, and behind that are assorted flight control cables.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1199/20050519015.jpg

This is the inside of the back of the strut on a 737-Classic, which doubles as a flap fairing. It shows really well how big and beefy the flap tracks are (the bendy I-beam). You can see the bottom of the flap carriage near the end of the track.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5647/20050513007.jpg

This is the top of the engine on a 737NG. The thrust link is the very large diagonal tube (the fan case is the just visible green edge to the extreme right). The big shiny block top-left is the bleed air precooler...bleed air comes up from the engine through the lower duct, cooling air from the fan duct comes in from the right. "Cool" bleed air exits out the top and goes up the strut.

Tom.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6319 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
This is the inside of the back of the strut on a 737-Classic, which doubles as a flap fairing. It shows really well how big and beefy the flap tracks are (the bendy I-beam).

When damage occurs from extending the flaps overspeed, are these tracks typically what become damaged?

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
This is the top of the engine on a 737NG. The thrust link is the very large diagonal tube

Are those titanium?



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6285 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
Are those titanium?

15-5PH stainless steel.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
When damage occurs from extending the flaps overspeed, are these tracks typically what become damaged?

Out of my area of expertise...I suspect it's more likely to be the flap carriage or the carriage/flap interface than the track, but dynamicsguy is in a much better position to answer. When you're at, say, Flaps 5 the track isn't anywhere close to being loaded as heavily as it is at Flaps 30 but you can still overspeed the flaps...that makes me think it's something on the flap side rather than the track side.

Tom.


User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6274 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
When damage occurs from extending the flaps overspeed, are these tracks typically what become damaged?

In my experience, no.

Below is a summary of the conditional flap/slat overspeed inspection for the 737NG.

General inspection criteria:
(1) Cracks
(2) Pulled apart structure
(3) Loose paint (paint flakes)
(4) Twisted parts (distortion)
(5) Bent components
(6) Loose fasteners
(7) Fasteners holes that became larger or longer
(8) Fasteners that have pulled out or are missing
(9) Delaminations
(10) Fiber breakouts
(11) Misalignment
(12) Interference
(13) Other signs of damage.

Phase 1: Up to 15kt overspeed.
Examine the trailing edge flap and leading edge flap/slat components as follows:
(a) Examine the external skin of all flaps.
(b) Examine the flaps adjacent to the support structure for openings, distortions, or split
sealant.

Phase 2: Over 15kt overspeed.
Examine the trailing edge flap components as follows:
(a) the flap tracks
(b) the flap linkages
(c) the track attachment points
(d) the flap track support fittings
(e) the wing in-spar surfaces near flap support fittings
(f) the flap carriages for cracks
1) the bearings and the mounting bolts
(g) the actuator support structure
(h) the actuator and drive mechanism.

(4) Remove all of the trailing edge flap support-track fuse pins or bolts.
(a) Remove the fuse pin or bolt one at a time.
1) Examine the fuse pins or bolts for cracks or distortion.

Examine the leading edge flap and slat components as follows:
(a) External skins of flaps and slats
(b) Leading edge flap hinge rib and linkage attachments
(c) Slat auxiliary and main tracks
(d) Leading edge flap and slat support ribs and adjacent skin panels
(e) All drive mechanisms and related support structure
(f) Remove slat main track and auxiliary track roller bolts.
NOTE: You can insert a retaining pin to hold the roller bearing or slat while the bolt is
removed.
1) Make sure the bolts are not cracked, bent, or show other signs of damage.

Phase 2 insp. = pissed off mechanics.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6265 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR

Cool...very interesting perspective. Thanks, guys.


Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6104 times:

Not a inside picture, but this is something we found during a overweight landing inspection.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/boeing767mech/105_0732.jpg

All I can tell you is yes this is a 757. The airplane landed at another station to drop off a sick passenger. They did a overweight landing inspection (so they say). After leaving this station on the way here the ATC called and told the crew that they had left something behind. We did a fly by here in LAX and yes saw he was missing the #3 wheel and brake assy. The NTSB is still looking into this issue. So this is all I can tell you.....

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineairnorth From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6096 times:
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great pics and insight!
Thanks very much!


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2792 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5903 times:

Thanks all, great insight how it looks in real life.

Tom,

those control wire wheels and wires (guess it should be to the ailerons) look awfully open to debris, is this the flap compartment which opens once you lower the flap (guess it should be), no additional hatch or cover removed?


If so, better not having any back-draught of dirt and stones ending up there, but I guess 45 years of practical use has shown it as a no issue then?

[Edited 2011-09-26 09:49:00]


Non French in France
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5841 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 13):
those control wire wheels and wires (guess it should be to the ailerons) look awfully open to debris, is this the flap compartment which opens once you lower the flap (guess it should be), no additional hatch or cover removed?

Your'e right, the pair of large cables/pulleys are are for the ailerons. The smaller cables above the aileron cables are for the #6 and #7 spoilers. The picture appears to be taken just outboard of the #5 ground spoiler outboard actuator, about one to two feet inboard of the #6 flap fairing located behind the #2 engine pylon. No additional hatch or cover, the flaps retract into the aft portion of the space.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 13):
look awfully open to debris, is this the flap compartment which opens once you lower the flap (guess it should be), no additional hatch or cover removed?

As yeelep said, there's no additional hatch or cover. The flap itself plugs up the back side of this space when the flap is retracted, so it's only exposed when the flaps are down. This is, obviously, also when you're on the ground and there's FOD around but, as you guessed:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 13):
If so, better not having any back-draught of dirt and stones ending up there, but I guess 45 years of practical use has shown it as a no issue then?

You do see a lot of dirt in there after a while, but I've never heard of anything of substance getting jammed or otherwise causing damage. Because this area is on the trailing edge, it's pretty well sheltered from the airstream.

A much bigger horror from an exposure point of view is the 737 wheel well:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lauda...d=76aaf96ee85f426e555055b6fca5e11b
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-B...d=76aaf96ee85f426e555055b6fca5e11b
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-B...d=76aaf96ee85f426e555055b6fca5e11b

Virtually every system on the airplane except ECS has major components in there with the main landing gear tires mere inches away and all the crud blown up from the runway going all over the place.

Tom.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2792 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

That is way crowded, guess some are serviceable items but others pass there as this is the crossroads for fuselage-back forth and wing left-right behind the wingbox, Don't see any control wires though, phieeew  .


Non French in France
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4057 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5619 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 11):

Thats quite something, another very interesting picture.



These photographs are so unique, interesting and educational to many of us.



How about a separate forum for them ?!



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 16):
Don't see any control wires though, phieeew

Actually, there are a bunch...the aileron and spoiler mixer is on the aft wall of the wheel well. It's barely visible in this photo if you know exactly what you're looking for as a while vertical tube with cams behind the hydraulic fluid reservoir on the left:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-B...d=76aaf96ee85f426e555055b6fca5e11b

You can see one pair of cables exiting away from you above/right of the landing gear mount and another pair coming towards you at the top right of the photo.

Tom.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 18):
Actually, there are a bunch...the aileron and spoiler mixer is on the aft wall of the wheel well. It's barely visible in this photo if you know exactly what you're looking for as a while vertical tube with cams behind the hydraulic fluid reservoir on the left:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-B...d=76aaf96ee85f426e555055b6fca5e11b

Darn it...wrong link, wrong side. This is the correct photo:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Berlin/Boeing-737-86J/0114913/L/

And the hydraulic reservoir in question is on the right high up.

Tom.


User currently offlineLU9092 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 69 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5361 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 19):
Darn it...wrong link, wrong side. This is the correct photo:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Berlin/Boeing-737-86J/0114913/L/

And the hydraulic reservoir in question is on the right high up.

You have no idea how long I stared at that first photo.   


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5256 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 17):

How about a separate forum for them ?!

Always suggested to Anet admin in site related to have a Technical Photo section covering Maintenance in Hangars & component photos but alas..... 



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinefadecfault From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5216 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 11):
E

Wow imagine if the tire and brake fell on a house...


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5164 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 11):

Did they locate the Brake/MW......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4999 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15):
You do see a lot of dirt in there after a while, but I've never heard of anything of substance getting jammed or otherwise causing damage. Because this area is on the trailing edge, it's pretty well sheltered from the airstream.

A much bigger horror from an exposure point of view is the 737 wheel well:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-B...d=76aaf96ee85f426e555055b6fca5e11b

Not the flap well, but one of our planes had a writeup for a stiff speedbrake handle that couldn't be duplicated on the ground. A dead rat was eventually found wedged behind the ratio changer (upper right hand corner of the above link). On the ground the handle could be moved normally, at altitude the rat froze and interfered with the speedbrake input quadrant.


25 Max Q : Nasty, but there are a lot more rats, dead and alive joining us on Aircraft around the world than we think !
26 yeelep : What would make you think they didn't perform the inspection. Unless the 757 manual is different than a 737NG in regards to the landing gear portion
27 boeing767mech : I'm quite aware what in done on a overweight landing having done many on every type of airplane in our fleet. It is just ironic that the VERY station
28 MD11Engineer : I remember a similar issue with one of the nose wheels and it´s axle of a 737NG breaking off upon landing. The investigation revealed that weeks bef
29 HAWK21M : We had something similiar.....But after the Initial visual Inspection was followed later by an NDT.The Aircraft was only released thereafter.
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