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How Does A Stranded Plane Get Back On The Tarmac?  
User currently offlineYokoTsuno From Singapore, joined Feb 2011, 348 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

I was just reading the story of an SQ 777 that got off the runway in Munich in a local newspaper. It is also discussed here.

SIA 777 Off Runway In Munich (by skinnerde Nov 3 2011 in Civil Aviation)

How do they get this plane back on the runway?. Is this the kind of push and pull work you see when someone tries to get a car out of the snow or mud. you know with the timber planks and branches. OK forget about the passengers pushing the plane. I am not in the mood today to give O'Leeary fresh ideas   .

I'd figure just using a tug could damage the landing gear. Right?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

I guess it depends on the circumstances. I can imagine a few basic methods that can be combined.
- If it's just sitting there and has not sunk in, carefully check the terrain, then tow or power out.
- If it has sunk into soft ground, dig trenches for the gear and reinforce with wood or metal planks, then tow out. I guess you can tow from various attachment points.
- Cranes.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBE77 From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

Call Joe Petroni.
Although his expertise might be limited to 707's, the mix of tools he used (and Starlion's) are the same way we get anything big and heavy unstuck in mining as well.



Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

They use "air bags" under the wings and fuselage to lift the aircraft off the ground then place steel plates under the wheels, and the bags are deflated. Then they will line steel plates up till the reach the runway. Tugs will be used with ropes or chines attached to the MLG to pull the aircraft backwards.

User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14072 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6004 times:

Just google "Aircraft Recovery Manual" (I´ve seen an Airbus one available on the WWW). This manual gives you all information about how and where to lift, pull or tow an aircraft stuck somewhere away from the usual operational surfaces.

Jan


User currently offlinenotaxonrotax From Ecuador, joined Mar 2011, 484 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5969 times:
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Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
not sunk in, carefully check the terrain, then tow or power out.

FOD?


No Tax On Rotax



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User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 5):
FOD?


No Tax On Rotax

Depending on the terrain, it's not too hard to mow down vegetation and do a very careful debris check on the intended path of taxi out. Probably not a good idea in a desert (where sand could get injested) or where there's lots of small stones and pebbles on the ground (which could also get sucked up).

  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5834 times:

Suggest looking at:

http://www.mobi-mat-aircraft-recovery-deschamps.com/darc.php

Look at all the different examples!


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 5):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
not sunk in, carefully check the terrain, then tow or power out.

FOD?

Depends on the terrain I'm sure. As KELPkid says you can look for potential FOD before starting.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineYokoTsuno From Singapore, joined Feb 2011, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
Look at all the different examples!
Thanks. It took a while to grasp that such manuals could be found on the web. I thought this was only for LG washing machines   .

I read through a Bombardier "Aircraft Recovery Manual" on the net this morning which explains this. Not too complex for a layman like me to understand. https://customer.aero.bombardier.com/webd/BAG/bbad/custsupp/techinfo/CICOpenDocuments.nsf/vwWebPage/TechPubs_ARM_CCC/$FILE/arm_700.pdf


User currently offlinedogbreath From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5643 times:

Quoting BE77 (Reply 2):
Call Joe Petroni.

You beat me to it.

What a Classic.
Check it out here.
http://youtu.be/wupqktw252M



Truth, Honour, Loyalty
User currently offlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
Depends on the terrain I'm sure. As KELPkid says you can look for potential FOD before starting.

Judging from the terrain in the picture and the fact that the 777 didn't dig into the soil where it came to a rest, I would imagine a power-out would work just fine. Once emptied of its passengers and baggage, it shouldn't take much power to move that aircraft back onto the runway.



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlinerampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5322 times:

Sometimes it takes a couple of heavy duty tow trucks and some rope!:

http://www.opshots.net/gallery2/index.php?page=photos&id=19219


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

In this case, I believe the aircraft was towed back onto the apron/taxiway by two 1000hp crash tenders of the airport fire brigade.


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineYokoTsuno From Singapore, joined Feb 2011, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5285 times:

Quoting rampkontroler (Reply 12):
Sometimes it takes a couple of heavy duty tow trucks and some rope!:

I learned from the Bombardier manual that the ropes are always attached to the main landing gear like in your picture. Since the main landing gear is close to the fuselage, to me this seems that the slightest difference in towing speed, the aircraft will swing its nose into one of the tractors?


User currently offlinerampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5096 times:

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 14):
I learned from the Bombardier manual that the ropes are always attached to the main landing gear like in your picture. Since the main landing gear is close to the fuselage, to me this seems that the slightest difference in towing speed, the aircraft will swing its nose into one of the tractors?

They do a good job synchronizing the two trucks so that nothing like that has happened...at least not here in Cleveland. (They've had quite a bit of experience putting planes back on the pavement here in recent years!)


User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

I'm surprised this thread is still open for replies.................

The definitive answer to the original question is of course........it all depends........on a whole bunch of things !
Type of A/C, condition of soil, ( frozen, dry, saturated with rain ) how deep is MLG in ground, etc. etc. etc. etc.

I have not had much experience getting large airliners out of "the mud", but I have had a lot with some very heavy trucks and other things. In many cases, the principles involved are very similar.

Just as important as "what to do", is "what NOT to do"; For example..........

Years ago, while I was driving tank trucks for a company in Dayton, Ohio, we were delivering a lot of Jet fuel to "Old Wright Field" ( before it became part of Wright-Patterson AFB ) Anyway, we were hauling the fuel with "doubles"
( two single axle tank trailers, pulled by a single axle B-61 Mack tractor ) Two brothers who owned about 25 rigs, had them leased to a tankline company, and they had an "iron -clad" rule; if you get stuck in the mud, CALL JAKE ! DO NOT, under any circumstances, allow ANYONE to attach ANYTHING to my truck, prior to calling me up.

Where the fuel storage was located was always soft; this one driver got stuck, but not too bad.......it just happened that a guy with a D-7 Caterpiller Dozer was working nearby; he offered to "help"; the driver, not "anxious" to deal with Jake on the phone ( Jake was impossible to deal with ) accepted the dozer guy's offer; everything from that point was "down-hill" !
A big chain was attached to the front axle, ( terrible mistake no.1 ), attached to the dozer, ( terrible mistake No.2 ), and when "power was applied", ( and believe me, a D-7 has plenty of power ), the only thing that came out of the mud, was the front axle, front wheels, and front springs of the Mack; The Mack, ( now with no front wheels, and the two trailer loads of jet fuel remained "in the mud". ( I gained one notch in seniority that day, as the "former" driver was above me on the list. )

It's pretty much the same way with big Jet Airliners; except they cost more; ( quite a bit more ) Yeah, you always need power to move heavy weight; the devil is in where to ( and where not to ) apply that power. Not that many tow truck guys are real "up" on big airplane recovery.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinetroubleshooter From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 423 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

Quoting BE77 (Reply 2):
Call Joe Petroni.
Although his expertise might be limited to 707's, the mix of tools he used (and Starlion's) are the same way we get anything big and heavy unstuck in mining as well.
Quoting dogbreath (Reply 10):

You beat me to it.

What a Classic.
Check it out here.
http://youtu.be/wupqktw252M

   Yes, Sir! He is the one you have to call.

Great video!!



This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

Depends on the Situation.

Normally defuelling is carried out to lighten the weight.
If needed metal sheets are layed out aft of the gears to provide less friction during towing away if the surface is soft or uneven.
Air bags placed under the aircraft to raise it & lighten it in case gear needs to be affixed or weight needs to be reduced.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Can't beat the Russians!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6bKCsJd2K0


User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 899 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3429 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BE77 (Reply 2):
Call Joe Petroni




I've got to say it too. Joe was the king.

To be honest though. We have a pull bar that is a boeing fixture to pull aircraft out of the mud/muck/snow. I've never used it. I don't know how to post pics here or I would take a pic. of it. I would have to go to the maintenance manual to see how to use it.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Quoting T prop (Reply 19):
Can't beat the Russians!

Wonder what were the discovered snags on the AN124 after this attempt  



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinecdekoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

How does a stranded F16 get back on the tarmac?

Using a flatbed, a mattress, some wood and straps around the instrument panel...

Quite entertaining to watch  
Recovering stranded F16 - Oshkosh 2011


To be fair to the ground crew - the plan was not to pull it, but to push it back onto the runway. Still, the lack of sophistication was quite popular with the crowd watching this...

[Edited 2012-01-03 13:19:30]


We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

And you would think the airforce would just hook it under a Chinook or something... nice pics  


The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting Fabo (Reply 23):
And you would think the airforce would just hook it under a Chinook or something... nice pics

I believe the AL tail flash is for the Alabama Air National Guard, so a little bit of "trailer park" ingenuity is in order here     



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 25, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting cdekoe (Reply 22):
To be fair to the ground crew - the plan was not to pull it, but to push it back onto the runway. Still, the lack of sophistication was quite popular with the crowd watching this...

Its Important to use the right equipment & the the correct procedures if the aircraft is to be flown again & maintenance expenses are to be kept low.....  



Think of the brighter side!
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