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Running To Aircraft Accident Scene, Punishable?  
User currently offlinespudsmac From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 301 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

So, the other day I was flying and a solo student from another flight school flipped his skyhawk in between a taxiway and runway. We had no idea if he was okay at first and ATC shut down the airport. I heard from another instructor that he has heard of people getting violations from the FAA for running across a taxiway to offer assistance after an aircraft accident.

Anyone ever heard of this? I can see how there would be an issue if there were aircraft moving around, but in an emergency like this, I think as long as precautions are taken (look left and right before crossing), there should be no violation.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinerunner13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

I was in this situation a few years ago, I was in a ops vehicle on a tour one night. We were right next to a runway and witnessed a small plane land hard, and crashed right in front of us. The ops vehicle requested permission to assist, but was denied as emergency vehicles were already there. The ops vehicle was later able to assist as they had to get pilot information, everyone walked away by the way, but immediately following an accident ATC has way too much going on to worry about random people running to a plane crash. I would not do it unless it was in a public place, airports have plenty of people to handle it. But to answer your question yes it is punishable as no one is allowed on active taxiways or runways without prior permission.

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Do your human duty.

You know what's right in the gut. If you're there and can render assistance, do it.

Worry about getting busted later  

The only regs I'm aware of are NTSB ones, about not disturbing mail or wreckage (once all aircraft occupants are safe-you are allowed to do what you need to get people out alive!).



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
Do your human duty.

  

Obviously take the necessary precautions by being aware of the surroundings.

Out here Cat 3 VDP [Vehicle driving permit] holders can move to the runway & the vehicles are equipped with VHF.Chances are Emergency response vehicles will reach much before you could.

On other areas of the Airport.....Human duty comes first.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinekpitrrat From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

I worked at an airport and always wondered what the protocol was for such an incident. As a poster put it earlier do your human duty. I figured some would jump in a tug or other vehicle and go out to do what they could but I also understand that there are obviously emergency services trained for such situations. I just feel it would be hard to stand there and not try and help in any way.

User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

Remember it's still an active airport...vehicles out on the AOA have radios and are paying attention on freq. Having someone just running out there put themselves in danger.

Plus there are several post accident procedures that have to be followed for the NTSB, FAA, and Airport Ops.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2444 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2972 times:

1- Do whatever it takes to protect human lives.

2- Do whatever it takes to preserve the accident scene.

3- Do whatever it takes to get the accident scene back to normal operations.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5531 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

What KELPkid said. You do the right thing, and if someone wants to violate you, well, karma will get them in the end.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

On most occassions....The Emergency services will reach earlier than the Individual & well equipped to handle the scene.
Just be aware of the surroundings while rushing in to assist.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinespudsmac From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Yeah, the whole reason why I'm asking is because there are no emergency services on the airport where I am. It's a class delta with no air carriers coming in, so I don't think they're required to have services on field. We have a lot of training aircraft, and it's the vast majority of traffic at the field so we have a good number of mishaps here. Thanks for all the responses though.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 9):
We have a lot of training aircraft

Shouldn't there be Emergency services on that Airport/airfield when aircraft operate.This is the norms even outside Aviation too when there is a chance of something going wrong.....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2353 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2211 times:
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Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Shouldn't there be Emergency services on that Airport/airfield when aircraft operate.This is the norms even outside Aviation too when there is a chance of something going wrong.....

Perhaps for fields handling airliners, but there are a vast number of very small airfields out there. How much emergency service is necessary for a 2500ft grass strip where half a dozen singles and a couple of dozen gliders are based? Does the big red fire extinguisher bolted to the wall of the hanger count?


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 11):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Shouldn't there be Emergency services on that Airport/airfield when aircraft operate.This is the norms even outside Aviation too when there is a chance of something going wrong.....

Perhaps for fields handling airliners, but there are a vast number of very small airfields out there. How much emergency service is necessary for a 2500ft grass strip where half a dozen singles and a couple of dozen gliders are based? Does the big red fire extinguisher bolted to the wall of the hanger count?

Every glider field around here I´ve seen has a clapped out van or car parked beside the operation coordinator´s office ("Flugleiter", often located in a building resembling a control tower, or a mobile "tower" built on the back of a truck, even though it is not officially a controlled field). This van will contain some fire extinguishers, basic rescue tools like crash axes, bolt cutters, wood and metal saws, hydraulic jacks, etc., plus a stretcher and a large first aid kit.

Jan


User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2153 times:

On our orientation, in an aeroclub that runs an uncontrolled airfield, we were told where certain equipment was and in some cases how to use it.
eg

In glider hangar, there is a water extighuisher on the left wall, there is a foam extinghuisher on the right wall, and there is a first aid kit on the back wall. Dont put electric fires out with water, use foam.

No ambulance on the field, although we do have an old fire truck, not sure if it works really, or is just there from when army was using the field. While we mostly do have some cars handy to approach possible scene, those are private vehicles.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Many General Aviation fields in the US have no fire equipment other than extinguishers on field. Those airfields depend on the local fire department for fire/rescue services as it would be cost prohibitive to lease or purchase a fire engine, maintain it, train crew, etc. A used truck in servicable condition can run anywhere from $10k to $100k and new builds are upwards of $300k, depending on equipment. At our airfield, response time would be about five minutes and who knows what truck the fire department will dispatch. There was a big deal made about the last fire response-took too long and they sent the wrong truck. End result: one hangar completely destroyed.


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
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