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Engine Fuel Consumption  
User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 198 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10556 times:

I remember I posted this question long time ago and received answers but can't find the damn thread... So sorry I need to post this again  

I am looking for jet engines fuel consumption data during takeoff, cruise and landing. Can anyone please help me on that?

Thanks,

An225

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10494 times:

Quoting An225 (Thread starter):
I am looking for jet engines fuel consumption data during takeoff, cruise and landing. Can anyone please help me on that?

Which aircraft? Which engines? What weight? What thrust rating? Unless you want a *really* big data table (which I'm not sure exists) we need to narrow the problem down.

Tom.


User currently offlinetitanmiller From United States of America, joined May 2006, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10493 times:

A B-1B bomber consumes about 250,000 pounds/hour at sea level full afterburner and roughly 20,000 pounds/hour at cruise. Like tom said, there are so many variables that this question is unanswerable without specifics.

A CFM56 will burn about 8-10,000lb/hr on takeoff and 2-3,000lb/hr at cruise.


User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1651 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

A JT8D will burn about 10,000+/hr on takeoff and depending on weight and desired cruise speed, anywhere from 2500-3800/hour in the low to mid 30's.


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10448 times:

Thanks for the replies.

When I originally posted this thread a long time ago, one of the participants gave me a link to the engine test reports (maybe the certification data?) which stated fuel consumption on takeoff, cruise and landing for numerous engines. I don't remember anything about weight or other variables.

An225


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10414 times:

Quoting An225 (Reply 4):
When I originally posted this thread a long time ago, one of the participants gave me a link to the engine test reports (maybe the certification data?) which stated fuel consumption on takeoff, cruise and landing for numerous engines.

That data usually sneaks around burried in environmental reports...getting good operational data for a large fleet is nearly impossible. For example, see Appendix F of this document:
www.epa.gov/oms/regs/nonroad/aviation/r99013.pdf

CAA keeps a list of engine data sheets:
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=702&pagetype=68

These give representative fuel flow for takeoff/climbout/approach/idle but not cruise.

Tom.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10374 times:

In the FWIW department a 77L at 329t TOW burns about 15.3t /hr on takeoff and climb to FL390; 6.68t/hr based on 15hrs cruise and 1.38t/ hr in descent and landing.

User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10318 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 6):

CAA keeps a list of engine data sheets:
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...pe=68

this is exactly what I needed

tdscanuck you are a life saver!
Thank so much

An225


User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10271 times:

Another question or two...
If I am looking at the ICAO ENGINE EXHAUST EMISSIONS DATA BANK pages, there are fuel consumption data for four phases of flight:
Take Off (100%)
Climb out (85%)
Approach (30%)
Idle (7%)
which of these figures relates to cruise phase of the flight?

Another question - the time in minutes given for each flight phase, is it realistic?

Thanks,

An225


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10194 times:

Quoting An225 (Reply 8):
which of these figures relates to cruise phase of the flight?

None...those data sheets are geared towards emissions modeling around airports so they ignore cruise.

You can interpolate between takeoff/climbout/approach to get a rough estimate for emission for various thrust levels.

Quoting An225 (Reply 8):
Another question - the time in minutes given for each flight phase, is it realistic?

In a statistical sense, yes. That data all exists to figure out the emissions input to the local airport environment.

Tom.


User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10083 times:

Thanks all for the insights

User currently offlinesf260 From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

Quoting titanmiller (Reply 2):
A B-1B bomber consumes about 250,000 pounds/hour at sea level full afterburner

Wow, that's really huge, concorde did 'only' 200,000 lb/hr at take off (with afterburner), while having 25% more thrust. (Concorde seemed a reasonable comparison object in terms of size/technology used to me).

And when comparing to an A380, that's even more mind-boggling, given it consumes about 80k lb/hr at take off thrust. That's 4 times as much, while weighing a third (or so)...   


User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9832 times:
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Quoting sf260 (Reply 11):
Wow, that's really huge, concorde did 'only' 200,000 lb/hr at take off (with afterburner), while having 25% more thrust. (Concorde seemed a reasonable comparison object in terms of size/technology used to me).

Afterburners are a rather inefficient way of generating more thrust (except at very high mach numbers). But they're small and lightweight compared to an engine upsized to generate that thrust. Concorde's A/Bs only produced about 6000lbs of additional thrust, or about a 19% increase from the non-afterburning 32,000lbs. The B1-B's A/Bs generate an additional 16,000lbs of thrust, over the normal 14,500lbs (125% increase). As a rough rule of thumb, each pound of thrust from the A/B consumes four times as much fuel as a pound of fuel from the turbojet/fan core. Assuming the engines on Concorde and the B1-B were equally efficient, you'd expect the F101s to consume about 40% more fuel in full burner than the Olympus.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17180 posts, RR: 66
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

Quoting sf260 (Reply 11):
Quoting titanmiller (Reply 2):
A B-1B bomber consumes about 250,000 pounds/hour at sea level full afterburner

Wow, that's really huge, concorde did 'only' 200,000 lb/hr at take off (with afterburner), while having 25% more thrust. (Concorde seemed a reasonable comparison object in terms of size/technology used to me).

Combat aircraft are typically not as "optimized" for low fuel burn as airliners, as is obvious from this comparison.

I heard once that a SAAB Viggen runs out of fuel in something like seven minutes on full afterburner.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBA777 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2181 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9778 times:

A rough figure for the 738 is 2,400kg/hr in general. So for example we say 15 mins holding is roughly 600kg.

User currently offlinesf260 From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9767 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 12):
Concorde's A/Bs only produced about 6000lbs of additional thrust, or about a 19% increase from the non-afterburning 32,000lbs. The B1-B's A/Bs generate an additional 16,000lbs of thrust, over the normal 14,500lbs (125% increase).

Overlooked that... Thanks for pointing it out!


User currently offlineMarkC From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 9599 times:

An225, those percentages from the emissions data can be misleading. Like someone else said, they appear to only apply in the vicinity of the airport. I assure you that climb thrust at altitude is nowhere near 85%. More like 20%. But the TSFC changes as well.

Anyway, you have a Private Message with what you are looking for.


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