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Do Crew Have To Stay In A Hotel On Layovers?  
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4068 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4714 times:
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That may seem like a silly question, but I came up with it upon hearing two UA F/As talking in a galley. One was boasting to the other that the city they were going to have their layover at was where she lives, and that she was planning to sleep home and get paid for it.

I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice, but I am not crew, so I thought it worth asking whether it is allowed. If it's not allowed, is it nevertheless doable? I suppose one could always pretend to go out of the hotel for an "evening walk" and come back in time for breakfast after a "morning run."


I've got $h*t to do
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineshamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1601 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

Some cities we are not allowed to leave the hotel compound, in other cities were staff may be from our companies policy is once it is cleared with the captain on the layover, then it is fine!

User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

At Eagle we're allowed to sleep at home if we overnight in our hometown. We do have to call the hotel and cancel our room, but we're free to do that.

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9077 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4475 times:
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Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):

Well, I have not really heard that my company forbid me to leave the hotel. But they recommend not to go out due to political reasons or any other reason.
I usually stay in the hotel, but every once in a while, when I have more time off at the destination, I'll drop my cell phone number to the Captain and head out.
Of course you always have to make sure to be back on time and ready to fly. So not incredibly exhausted because you were on a long private trip or so.
I once had a little over 4 days off on YYZ, so I headed over to YVR and the other time to YYC. Was back in YYZ 12 hours before my flight, so enough time to get enough rest before my flight...
In some countries we are not allowed to leave the city as the Visa is only for the City. Mainly in China I know about that.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2706 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):
I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice

Do you mind listing all of them that you can think of?

I'm curious.


User currently offlinelowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4373 times:

Our company doesn't care what you do on a layover so long as you show up for the next flight fit to fly, and you don't require bail. Beyond that, we are adults entrusted with large amounts of valuable cargo and expensive aircraft and are generally trusted to manage our own affairs when on a layover.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently onlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4337 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 4):

As am I. I know of several crew that have stayed with friends/family in their destination city.



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4300 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 4):
Do you mind listing all of them that you can think of?

Some people just like to beat up on crews. I used to have a dispatcher that expected us to stay in our rooms 24/7 until we had a trip(doing on call freight charter in a Learjet) and that included eating meals. It can be anywhere from 10 hours to 2 weeks waiting for a trip. Man was she always mad when we were out eating when she gave us a 45 minute wheels up time! As long as it's reasonable, I go out and do what I want when waiting to go fly.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 5):
and you don't require bail.

It puts the company in an entertaining spot when the flight has to go and you are too far away for the replacement guy to come in though! Hmmm is the bail cheaper than the last minute airline ticket cost....



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4295 times:

Quoting jetblast (Reply 6):
I know of several crew that have stayed with friends/family in their destination city.

Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc



Fortune favours the brave
User currently onlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4289 times:

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 8):
Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc

Not sure, actually...I work airport ops and occasionally we have some crew that show up at the terminal a bit earlier for their departure than the rest of the crew, as they were staying somewhere other than the hotel.



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlinejetpilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4258 times:

When I flew For BAX Global and flew TOL-JFK I went home every night. I told the director of operations that I was going to be iving home and he told me that I wasn't going to get my per diem. I replied OK put me in the hotel then. He said.. well come to think of it it's OK you go home. Paying me my per diem was chepaer than getting me a room for two in a NY hotel for two weeks AND giving me perdiem. So I got to go home and get my per diem as well.

Perfect job. I reported to the airport at 10:00PM for an 11PM departure. We arrived back at JFK at 7Am and I was in my bed at home by 8AM. Got to love it.

We didn't fly on Saturday or Sunday so I would go and pick up the crew and take them out on Saturday nights. The NY motel was a dump and it was right at the airport. It was a long walk to any food. I would bring home cooked meals for the guys once or twice a week. Those were good times!


User currently offlinee38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Quoting blueflyer (thread starter), "I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice, but I am not crew, so I thought it worth asking whether it is allowed."

Many crewmembers who do not live in the same city in which they are based (i.e., commuters) will routinely bid trips with layovers in their hometowns. (This is in the United States). It's not a big deal. If you are going to spend 13 or 14 nights away from home each month staying in a hotel, the opportunity to have an extra night or two at home is considered quite a nice bonus in the course of a monthly schedule.

Also quoting blueflyer, "I suppose one could always pretend to go out of the hotel for an "evening walk" and come back in time for breakfast after a "morning run."

Blueflyer, you don't have to be "sneaky" about it. Here's how it works--after landing at the layover city, when the rest of the crews heads to the hotel shuttle pick-up area, the other crewmember rides the employee shuttle to the employee lot, gets in his/her car and drives home. The next day, the crewmember drives back to the employee parking lot, rides the employee shuttle to the terminal and meets the rest of the crew at the gate.

Of course, you always tell your fellow crewmembers where you will be, and leave one of them your home/cell phone number and you always call your airline's "crew hotel desk" or "crew accommodations desk" and tell them what you are doing. I've never heard of the hotel desk or crew accommodation desk taking exception to this.

Personally, I think it would be very unusual to check in and stay at a hotel when my home is only a short distance away.

e38


User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 899 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

I've done this many times even though I live in my base city. It is fun to visit with family/friends when you are in their city and with short overnights is is usually easier to stay with them instead of at the hotel. I always let my fellow crewmembers know and pass along my cell phone number. Never been an issue before.

User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2832 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4230 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 4):
Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):
I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice

Do you mind listing all of them that you can think of?

I'm curious.

Yeah, I can't wait to hear this either.


User currently onlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1480 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Sometimes I'll stay with family or friends vs the hotel. It's nobody's business but my own as long as I show up for report. It's a courtesy to let the hotel know you won't be there. Nothing is different in terms of pay, but the company can then use that hotel room for unscheduled crews or reroutes etc.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4653 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4212 times:

It's not an issue,


Wherever you go on a layover is up to you, just leave a contact number with the Captain and / or scheduling in case they need to reach you in the event of a change of plans and be at the Aircraft the next day at the time you are supposed to be there.



Of course you should be paid per diem, you are away from your home base.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 3):
Well, I have not really heard that my company forbid me to leave the hotel. But they recommend not to go out due to political reasons or any other reason.

Some companies may require the crews not to leave the hotel in some cases. I think I heard that was the case for ex. when there was civil unrest in destination, but then again, I dont know how they would react if the crew member was home in that destination.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlineLonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 5):
so long as you show up for the next flight fit to fly, and you don't require bail

Good one!  
Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 8):
Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc

At my airline, if you do not require your hotel room, you may cancel it in advance, (through Crew Scheduling) and you are paid compensation for the room not used.

If however you do not stay at your booked hotel, you are required to be "contactable" during the layover.

What I have noticed often, is the reverse. If a crew member is laying over at their home town, often their spouse will join them at the hotel, for a little "break". Get Grandma to take care of the kids!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4068 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3915 times:
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Thanks for the answers, very enlightening.

I didn't think that having potential reasons why airlines would not want to give crew the ability to skip the hotel would be so controversial. For what it's worth, I don't have an opinion or a stake, and I was asking in the context of international flights, since the conversation I overheard was on one. As for specific reasons, they'd range from safety obviously (in some cities), to health (food-wise), to easily gathering crew together for irrops, to insurance (my employer's travel insurance doesn't kick in if I skip the hotel), dispatch not trusting crew to report on time in a "foreign" place, labor relations, etc...

Quoting tb727 (Reply 7):
Some people just like to beat up on crews.

I suppose if you think I am pre-disposed to beat up on crews, you didn't spend two seconds wondering why I didn't bother mentioning the flight, date and galley position before I knew whether this practice was kosher or not. Perhaps now you should.

[Edited 2011-12-13 07:51:10]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 18):
I suppose if you think I am pre-disposed to beat up on crews, you didn't spend two seconds wondering why I didn't bother mentioning the flight, date and galley position before I knew whether this practice was kosher or not. Perhaps now you should.

No, that wasn't the case, sorry if it came off that way. I was just having a discussion the other day on this very subject with the guys I was flying with.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineRJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 577 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting Longhauler (Reply 17):
At my airline, if you do not require your hotel room, you may cancel it in advance, (through Crew Scheduling) and you are paid compensation for the room not used.

The same is true for our crew over here (at Jazz).



Last Flight(s): YHZ-YUL-YYC-YVR-YYJ // YYJ-YYZ-YSJ-YHZ.....Next Flight(s):
User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Part of the attraction to this job is visiting new places. Hotel rooms all look the same. If I have a long enough overnight I'm usually out exploring if safe to do so.


DMI
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3718 times:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 5):
and you don't require bail.

Kill joys.....

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 8):
Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc

Airlines by nature are extremely cheap. I've never heard of any US airline giving compensation to a crewmember for not staying in the hotel.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
or scheduling

I hope you're kidding. Scheduling doesn't own you during your rest periods (I hope anyway)

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 18):
I didn't think that having potential reasons why airlines would not want to give crew the ability to skip the hotel would be so controversial.

I can completely understand this statement from someone who's never flown for an airline.

At many regionals, and probably a lot of majors / legacies, scheduling thinks they own you. I've heard of them sending police to someone's hotel room under the guise they were concerned for the pilots' safety because "he was late for a trip and hasn't been answering calls on either his cell or hotel phone". In reality he didn't pick up those phones because he knew it was scheduling, knew they wanted to jack with his trip the next day and was under no obligation to answer the phone. He wasn't going to speak with them until reporting for duty at the appointed time. That is until the cops show up pounding on his hotel door.

I knew of one other guy too who told scheduling he was going home for the night, they said no, he went anyway. They called the hotel to find out if he was there or not and then turned him over to the Chief Pilot under the guise of insubordination. Again, scheduling doesn't own you on the overnights. There was nothing in the FOM or CBA stating you had to sleep in the company provided hotel room at the time.

When I left the crappy airline and went elsewhere, it was completely different. The company booked a hotel for every overnight, including ones in base if you lived more than 2 hrs away according to Mapquest. If you don't want the hotel, they cancel it. Happens often. If you lived more than 2 hrs away, they'll still book the hotel if you wanted it (but for some reason I'm thinking you had to pay out of pocket).


User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2706 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 18):
As for specific reasons, they'd range from safety obviously (in some cities), to health (food-wise), to easily gathering crew together for irrops, to insurance (my employer's travel insurance doesn't kick in if I skip the hotel), dispatch not trusting crew to report on time in a "foreign" place, labor relations, etc...


What does labor relations mean?


User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3642 times:

I know a lot of people who bid for specific overnights to be home more. They'll commute to work, then be home and extra night or two every week. Our contract says if you're away from base on company business you get per diem. As long as you show up for duty the next day on time and fit for duty, nobody cares.

As far as interruptions during our rest period by the company, they can call but it resets our rest period, so they avoid it as much as possible.



Life is better when you surf.
25 Starlionblue : I guess blueflyer means if there is a labor dispute going on. But I don't see how this would or should stop crew from leaving the hotel.
26 pilotpip : If there's a labor dispute going on the company has bigger issues than me being in a hotel room. Contrary to what scheduling and the company may thin
27 Max Q : Not sure why you would think they do. Since I am the Captain, they need to know where I am in case of a change in plans. They need a cell and a land
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