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727-200 & 737-200 "Advanced". What Made Them So?  
User currently offlinelat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 471 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5291 times:

The later production versions of the 722 and 732, in OAG speak of the day 72S and 73S, were called advanced. What was the distinction that made that moniker. Although these birds have long passed on to second and third tier carriers (if not the scrapyard) and out of this country, does and "advanced" have any more value on the used market?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5281 times:

I think they had higher weight limits with a little more thrust.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9642 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5257 times:

I believe Advanced on the 727 was a 727-200 with an increased MTOW.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 5070 times:

Quoting lat41 (Thread starter):
72S and 73S, were called advanced. What was the distinction that made that moniker.

While not fully detailed or comprehensive, there is some data about the advanced versions here on a.net:

http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=90

"First flown in March 1972 changes introduced on the Advanced model included increased fuel capacity, and thus range, the option of more powerful engines, quieter engine nacelles and strengthened structure. The Advanced remained the primary 727-200 production model until production ceased in 1984."


http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=91

"The definitive Advanced 737-200 appeared in 1971, featuring minor aerodynamic refinements and other improvements."



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

The original 737-200's (non-advanced) were merely stretched -100's, and turned out to be slower than the -100 (more drag). An easy way to tell a non-advanced 200 from an advanced is that the pylon fairing on the -200 is "fat" (almost as wide as the section of nacelle that touches it) an the -200ADV has "skinny" nacelles.

Also, a huge design change was the lap joints in the fuselage. This played a factor in the Aloha 737 "convertible" accident, as the old design allowed a catastophic failure if cracks and corrosion were allowed to continue unchecked.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3940 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

I remember I flew with Pan Am and their B727 200 "Stretch". Anyone know why they put the "Stretch" in the typename ? Was there anything different about these at all or was it just a gimmick ?

User currently offlinecvg2lga From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

Mortyman,

I could be wrong, but I think the "Stretch" refers to the fuselage length differences in the 727-100 & 727-200. And I believe this also went for the DC9 series i.e. D9S

Tchau

DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

Any B737-200s/B727-200s still?

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 5):
I remember I flew with Pan Am and their B727 200 "Stretch". Anyone know why they put the "Stretch" in the typename ? Was there anything different about these at all or was it just a gimmick ?

"Stretch" was not a Boeing designation. Just Pan Am marketing like other airline nicknames for aircraft. One horrid example is the appaling "Jumbolino".



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4327 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
Any B737-200s/B727-200s still?

Yep, there are a few, mostly flying freight. I'll be flying a 727 around tonight and there is a 737-200 out on the ramp where I am right now too, I saw it fly yesterday.

Check these links once in a while, you'll see a few flying throughout the day and night.

http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B732
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B722



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

Not sure about the 727, but I know for the 737-200 when the Advanced version came out the main highlights were:

-Fuselage was constructed using slightly different bonding methods
-Higher weights
-Optional higher thrust engines
-Slightly better engine nacelles
-Slightly modified leading edge flaps and a few other aerodynamic tweaks

As for numbers still in service I don't know about the totals, but in this corner of the world the standard -200s went away long ago, as far as I know there's been nothing but Advanced models around here for several years now.



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Also, didn't the thrust reversers on the 732 go from being pneumatic & wimpy to being hydraulically activated and powerful? Seem to recall that difference, too  


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAeroweanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1609 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4065 times:
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Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
An easy way to tell a non-advanced 200 from an advanced is that the pylon fairing on the -200 is "fat" (almost as wide as the section of nacelle that touches it) an the -200ADV has "skinny" nacelles.

Are you sure? I've never seen anything but one common pylon width.

One change was to eliminate the blow-in doors on the nacelle. The engine spinner was also changed, both changes being made to reduce noise. T-43s have/had the blow-in doors. I've been near one during a ground run and can testify to the noise the doors produce.

Non-Adv and Adv:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George W. Hamlin
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marc Hasenbein



The change in thrust reverser was retrofitted to all early production 737s. Was it part of the Adv package or a separate item?


User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6835 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
An easy way to tell a non-advanced 200 from an advanced is that the pylon fairing on the -200 is "fat" (almost as wide as the section of nacelle that touches it) an the -200ADV has "skinny" nacelles.

On the #1 and #3 engines, you mean? No difference on #2?

I always thought the interior change about coincided with the "Advanced".

732 reversers all got changed, didn't they? Even on the unAdvanced 737s?


User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

737-200 Vs 737-200Adv,727 Vs 727Adv (by TheSonntag Aug 3 2007 in Tech Ops)


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Description of 737-200 Advanced changes here:
http://www.b737.org.uk/737original.htm#737-200%20Advanced


User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4000 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
Also, didn't the thrust reversers on the 732 go from being pneumatic & wimpy to being hydraulically activated and powerful?

Yep, those air operated reversers were a freaking nightmare. Nothing but problems. Hell, what air did they use? Nothing but dirty, oily, crappy jet engine air. You can figure out what that means. Valves, actuators, everything getting clogged. It was horrible. They were on the JT3 as well. Sure glad Boeing went primarily to Snecma on the later ones.

737tdi


User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2556 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 12):
Are you sure? I've never seen anything but one common pylon width.

The flat pylon fairings were introduced on the 737-200 as part of a drag reduction programme, so most -200s and -200Adv would have the same feature.

Quoting timz (Reply 13):
On the #1 and #3 engines, you mean? No difference on #2?

He was talking about the 737, not the 727.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2556 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3976 times:

The 727-200adv also had options for autothrottle and a more advanced autopilot and flight director. Some even had FFRATS and PDCS.


The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 12):
Are you sure? I've never seen anything but one common pylon width.

Actually, I had it backwards    The ADV has the "fat" pylon fairings, and the -200 original has the skinny fairings. See:
http://www.b737.org.uk/737original.htm#737-200



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

What made them "Advanced" models? The Marketing Department!

User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2556 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3689 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):
Actually, I had it backwards The ADV has the "fat" pylon fairings, and the -200 original has the skinny fairings

Later -200s had those wide flat pylons too. The change was made before the -200adv was launched.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

Just a note about the 737 reversers, that wasn't related to the Advanced model. The newer and better hydraulic reversers and the four foot tailpipe extention that went with them was introduced about a year after the 737 first entered production, long before the Advanced models came along. Shortly after indroducing them Boeing also offered a kit to convert the -100s and the first batch of -200s from the original pneumatic reversers to the "normal" ones, which I believe they all got.


What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offline113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 572 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3615 times:

The original B727-200 "Stretched" added 20 feet of length to the basic 727-100 series but retained the JT-8D-7A engine and weights. Many also retained some of the original systems like pneumatically controlled pressurization. Many airlines operated this first stretched version including Eastern and PSA.

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