Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?  
User currently offlineunited319 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 527 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5560 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi All,

Please forgive me if this is a silly question or if it has been answered already. I searched and couldn't find anything. Could and airline re-engine it's aircraft with a different type? With all of the mergers going on these days airlines are getting the same type of aircraft with different engine variants. Could they theoretically change the engine type when it is time for the engines to get major overhauls any way? Example, UA fleeting its 757's with all RR or PW, US fleeting its A320 family with all IAE or CFMs.


It's Time To Fly
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBreninTW From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1689 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5556 times:

In brief, yes they can.

There's a 747 flying around that had an engine type change at some point in its life. One of CX's 777-300s was originally built with GE engines (I believe) but was changed to RR engines prior to being delivered.

However, if it's economically viable to change engines is an entirely different question. There are major interface differences between the plane-engine interfaces for different engines. It's a major undertaking to change engines on a frame.

The 787 was supposed to have a common interface between the GE and RR engines. Unfortunately it hasn't happened "as advertised."



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 1):
The 787 was supposed to have a common interface between the GE and RR engines. Unfortunately it hasn't happened "as advertised."

The 787 still can swap engines without rewiring, new avionics, or new software, which is a huge advance over prior aircraft vis a vis engine changes. As far as I know, it's the only current airliner that was designed to have the engines swapped after initial assembly.

The original goal was common interface for both GE and RR engines so you could just drop one engine (and nacelle) and put on the other. That did not happen but they are common at the strut/wing interface. So you drop the engine, nacelle, and strut, then put on the new ones. Not as convenient as originally envisioned but still a whole heap better than anything else out there currently.

Tom.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25696 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5202 times:

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 1):
One of CX's 777-300s was originally built with GE engines (I believe) but was changed to RR engines prior to being delivered.

I think you're referring to the very first 777 built, a 777-200 (not a 300) that spent 6 years with Boeing and was then refurbished, reengined from PW to RR, and sold to CX. The aircraft below.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Phil Vabre
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christian Junker

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 1):
There's a 747 flying around that had an engine type change at some point in its life.

A couple of Atlas Air 747-200s were converted from PW to GE. One of them below (same aircraft in all photos). That aircraft was written off after a runway overrun accident at DUS in 2005.

Original PW engines:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Udo K. Haafke
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



GE engines:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anne Deus
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © TT - AirTeamImages




And 110 -60 series DC-8s were converted from the original PW JT3Ds to CFM56s in the early to mid-1980s, resulting a major improvement in performance and economics, not to mention a big reduction in noise..

Same aircraft before and after:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



User currently offlinejshjrm5 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

I am wondering if it would be possible to engine an MD-88 with the MD-90 engines. This would greatly increase their fuel efficiency.

User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 718 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

Quoting jshjrm5 (Reply 4):
I am wondering if it would be possible to engine an MD-88 with the MD-90 engines. This would greatly increase their fuel efficiency.

While it would undoubtedly increase fuel efficiency, I doubt it would be economically viable to make the investment into an airframe that has few years left in it. Not only would an airline have to pay for the retrofit, but it would have to pay the certificaton costs as well since an MD-80 reengineing program does not exist at this point.

It may not be possible anyways. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason the MD-90 was stretched a few rows was to accomidate for the increased weight of the IAE engines (i.e. keep if from being tail heavy). To add frames to the MD-80 fuselage would be a major undertaking and may not be technically possible.



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3677 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It's not a matter of COULD it be done but is it Cost effective to do it?
I work at United and the S-co 757's fly the Rolls engine. While the S-ua 757's fly the PWA 2040's . each does the Job it's assigned to and each will have it's own cost analysis. what 's the answer? I have no Idea what the costs are But someone Does and that will come to light when we order newer airplanes.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 6):

The sUA 757's are being on phased out as the new 739's come online per Semisk. So an engine change program at UA is moot.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3677 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting jshjrm5 (Reply 4):

I am wondering if it would be possible to engine an MD-88 with the MD-90 engines. This would greatly increase their fuel efficiency.

McDD did do some preliminary offers on an MD-90-10 which would of been MD8x aircraft reengined and with updated avionics. Alaska and Delta I think were the primary targets? They also offered the Super-9 program to AC and NW in the early 90s to do something similar (but with RR Tay or PW JT8D-21x engines) to DC-9-30/-40/-50.

I'll see if i can find the brochures at home later... not alot on them though as i recall.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinejshjrm5 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2863 times:

I see on a website that DL has purchased an MD-87, N476DN, from SAS. Is this another bird for parts or is it being added to the fleet??? I know the MD-90s they are purchasing are going into service, I am just wondering about the MD-80 series they are purchasing second hand.

Thank you!!!


User currently offlinen901wa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

Hi jshjrm5, the MD-87 and all the exSAS birds are for parts, along with 5 MD-90s that were purchased for parting out. HTH  

User currently offlineMarkC From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Its about certification. DC8's could do it because of the vast amount of engines involved.

There was also some 747-200's re-engined from JT9-7's to JT9D-7R4G2's on cargo planes. It actually caused an increase in demand for -7R4G2 parts. Belive me, a much different engine. Its because this engine was certified to 747-200's and -300's.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Can Airlines Change Their Engine Types?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Do Airlines Change Flight Numbers? posted Sun May 1 2011 13:12:10 by SyrAlex
How Do Airlines Choose Their Routes? posted Sun Dec 19 2010 18:45:02 by AirCanadaA330
Question - Changing Engine Types On Aircraft posted Sat Dec 18 2010 22:31:37 by Plainplane
Where Do Airlines Base Their Flight Operations posted Thu May 13 2010 20:10:13 by coopdogyo
Can Airlines Save $$$ By Not Painting Airplanes? posted Fri Mar 26 2010 20:40:25 by c5load
How Airlines Choose Their Flight Numbers posted Fri Aug 8 2008 13:14:42 by Bbinn333
Comparison Of Various Engine Types On The B-777 posted Sun Dec 23 2007 11:59:32 by AT
Change In Engine Sounds At Max Power posted Thu Jan 26 2006 06:35:53 by Dr.DTW
How Long To Change An Engine? posted Thu Nov 17 2005 12:14:57 by Saintsman
Do Airlines Cannibalize Their Engines? posted Sun Oct 2 2005 07:09:44 by GOCAPS16

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format