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Transoceanic Flights In The Southern Hemisphere  
User currently offlineEverettWA From Turkey, joined Sep 1999, 330 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

I can think of the following regularly scheduled long haul flights that start and end in the southern hemisphere:

EZE - CPT -- MH
EZE - JNB -- SA
GRU - LAD -- DT
GIG - LAD -- DT
GRU - JNB -- SA

EZE - AKL -- LA
EZE - AKL -- AR

PER - JNB -- SA
SYD - JNB -- QF
SYD - RUN -- UU

Not all of these are daily. There are very few scheduled East-West ocean crossings in the Southern Hemisphere, which isn't necessarily surprising. These are probably the loneliest flights in the world, the ones that venture farthest from any other passenger aircract. Especially the AKL-SCL and AKL-EZE ones.

So how are these flights managed across the southern oceans? Are there fixed tracks like there are across the North Atlantic? Are there dedicated oceanic control centers, like Shanwick? What are some of the designated diversion airports?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6328 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting EverettWA (Thread starter):
So how are these flights managed across the southern oceans? Are there fixed tracks like there are across the North Atlantic? Are there dedicated oceanic control centers, like Shanwick? What are some of the designated diversion airports?

Between NZ and South America there is only PPT/Easter Island that can be used in the North, and there is a point not really that far off the coast of New Zealand (from memory only about 2h into flight which is the point of no return where they must continue to South America in order to divert because it becomes the nearest airport..

AR commonly uses Montevideo,Ushuaia,Bariloche as their diversion airports AKL-EZE- dependent on the track they are given (changes during the year and given the weather near Antarctica). There are 5 common tracks between AKL-EZE North to South they give or take overfly TRG/GIS/NPE/WLG enroute AKL EZE. LA has similar flight paths AKL-SCL but I think they are more northerly as LA uses PPT as diversion point. on some routings.

User currently offlineTCASAlert From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 1):
Between NZ and South America there is only PPT/Easter Island that can be used in the North, and there is a point not really that far off the coast of New Zealand (from memory only about 2h into flight which is the point of no return where they must continue to South America in order to divert because it becomes the nearest airport..

How is that though, the crossing is longer than 4 hours surely?

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8754 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

The requirements basically require the airplane to meet ETOPS requirements and have special permission to travel below 60 degrees latitude (same as above 78 north). Extra equipment is required including additional fire suppression, communications, etc. The ICAO requirements changed in 2007.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 1):

Between NZ and South America there is only PPT/Easter Island that can be used in the North, and there is a point not really that far off the coast of New Zealand (from memory only about 2h into flight which is the point of no return where they must continue to South America in order to divert because it becomes the nearest airport..

That does not make a lot of sense to me. What you might be referring to is that there is a point where if they have a specific mechanical failure before reaching, they will have to return to AKL.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 1):
Between NZ and South America there is only PPT/Easter Island that can be used in the North

They're not allowed to use Hao as an alternate?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

Quoting EverettWA (Thread starter):
I can think of the following regularly scheduled long haul flights that start and end in the southern hemisphere:

EZE - CPT -- MH

MH terminated service to JNB, CPT and EZE last month (among other unprofitable destinations) as part of a restructuring to try and turn around their poor financial situation.

User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 693 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 4):
They're not allowed to use Hao as an alternate?

If you wan't an obscure place to put a runway, try Henderson Island in the Pitcairn group. At least it is dry, moderately level, and unused. Back in WWII the Seabees could have put a runway there in a week. If the Japanese had gotten much further west they probably would have. Aitutaki got a runway courtesy of the USN.

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Quoting EverettWA (Thread starter):
EZE - AKL -- LA

I think you mean SCL-AKL.

Two routes that you seem to have forgotten from your list are MK's MRU-PER and MRU-MEL


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
The requirements basically require the airplane to meet ETOPS requirements and have special permission to travel below 60 degrees latitude (same as above 78 north). Extra equipment is required including additional fire suppression, communications, etc

All flights are currently AFAIK on quads. B744/A340 except for RUN-SYD (which used B777), which has been been discontinued.

Gemuser


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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):
except for RUN-SYD (which used B777), which has been been discontinued.

When did that change happen? UU's 77W service CDG-RUN-SYD-NOU is still appearing in systems and in their website. Has there been an announcement that it's being cancelled at some future date?

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):

When did that change happen? UU's 77W service CDG-RUN-SYD-NOU is still appearing in systems and in their website. Has there been an announcement that it's being cancelled at some future date?

I believe it ceases from late March.

http://airlineroute.net/2011/12/15/uu-bkksydnou-s12/

edited to add: UU's own website puts the last departure from RUN to SYD-NOU as 20 March

http://www.air-austral.com/a-propos-dair-austral/actualites.html

[Edited 2012-01-20 17:26:35]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8754 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):
All flights are currently AFAIK on quads. B744/A340 except for RUN-SYD (which used B777), which has been been discontinued.

Nowadays all airplanes are regulated by ETOPS when flying extended overwater routes or polar ops. Some of the various requirements are being introduced on quads such as fire suppression, additional communication, etc.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):

Nowadays all airplanes are regulated by ETOPS when flying extended overwater routes or polar ops. Some of the various requirements are being introduced on quads such as fire suppression, additional communication, etc.

Current quads grandfathered in until 2017, in Australian jurstriction at least.

I wouldn't be suprised if many 20th century quad designs are in fact granted concessions/wavier until their withdraw.

Gemuser


DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinecaptainmeeerkat From Russia, joined Aug 2010, 354 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

What about cargo? Are there any cargo operators operating such routes and with what equipment?


my luggage is better travelled than me!
User currently offlinecmf From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
Nowadays all airplanes are regulated by ETOPS when flying extended overwater routes or polar ops.

I know it is a FAA regulation but have all other authorities implemented it too?

And with FAA there are still differences that make some things easier with a 3+ engines.


Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26726 posts, RR: 83
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2184 times:
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Quoting cmf (Reply 14):
I know it is a FAA regulation but have all other authorities implemented it too?

EASA has implemented similar regulations for two, three-and-four engine planes, though they (at least planned to) call it LROPS - Long Range OPerationS.

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 14):

I know it is a FAA regulation but have all other authorities implemented it too?

Australia & NZ have implemented EDTO rules. EDTO = Extended Diversion Time Operations. The NZ rules are nice and clear, good luck ever getting Australian approval for ANY such operation.

Gemuser


DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
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