Not all of these are daily. There are very few scheduled East-West ocean crossings in the Southern Hemisphere, which isn't necessarily surprising. These are probably the loneliest flights in the world, the ones that venture farthest from any other passenger aircract. Especially the AKL-SCL and AKL-EZE ones.
So how are these flights managed across the southern oceans? Are there fixed tracks like there are across the North Atlantic? Are there dedicated oceanic control centers, like Shanwick? What are some of the designated diversion airports?
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 5820 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
Quoting EverettWA (Thread starter): So how are these flights managed across the southern oceans? Are there fixed tracks like there are across the North Atlantic? Are there dedicated oceanic control centers, like Shanwick? What are some of the designated diversion airports?
Between NZ and South America there is only PPT/Easter Island that can be used in the North, and there is a point not really that far off the coast of New Zealand (from memory only about 2h into flight which is the point of no return where they must continue to South America in order to divert because it becomes the nearest airport..
AR commonly uses Montevideo,Ushuaia,Bariloche as their diversion airports AKL-EZE- dependent on the track they are given (changes during the year and given the weather near Antarctica). There are 5 common tracks between AKL-EZE North to South they give or take overfly TRG/GIS/NPE/WLG enroute AKL EZE. LA has similar flight paths AKL-SCL but I think they are more northerly as LA uses PPT as diversion point. on some routings.
TCASAlert From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2809 times:
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 1): Between NZ and South America there is only PPT/Easter Island that can be used in the North, and there is a point not really that far off the coast of New Zealand (from memory only about 2h into flight which is the point of no return where they must continue to South America in order to divert because it becomes the nearest airport..
How is that though, the crossing is longer than 4 hours surely?
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 7619 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2742 times:
The requirements basically require the airplane to meet ETOPS requirements and have special permission to travel below 60 degrees latitude (same as above 78 north). Extra equipment is required including additional fire suppression, communications, etc. The ICAO requirements changed in 2007.
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 1):
Between NZ and South America there is only PPT/Easter Island that can be used in the North, and there is a point not really that far off the coast of New Zealand (from memory only about 2h into flight which is the point of no return where they must continue to South America in order to divert because it becomes the nearest airport..
That does not make a lot of sense to me. What you might be referring to is that there is a point where if they have a specific mechanical failure before reaching, they will have to return to AKL.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 18467 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2386 times:
Quoting EverettWA (Thread starter): I can think of the following regularly scheduled long haul flights that start and end in the southern hemisphere:
EZE - CPT -- MH
MH terminated service to JNB, CPT and EZE last month (among other unprofitable destinations) as part of a restructuring to try and turn around their poor financial situation.
aklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 435 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2345 times:
Quoting timz (Reply 4): They're not allowed to use Hao as an alternate?
If you wan't an obscure place to put a runway, try Henderson Island in the Pitcairn group. At least it is dry, moderately level, and unused. Back in WWII the Seabees could have put a runway there in a week. If the Japanese had gotten much further west they probably would have. Aitutaki got a runway courtesy of the USN.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4845 posts, RR: 7 Reply 8, posted (4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2108 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3): The requirements basically require the airplane to meet ETOPS requirements and have special permission to travel below 60 degrees latitude (same as above 78 north). Extra equipment is required including additional fire suppression, communications, etc
All flights are currently AFAIK on quads. B744/A340 except for RUN-SYD (which used B777), which has been been discontinued.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 18467 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1916 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 8): except for RUN-SYD (which used B777), which has been been discontinued.
When did that change happen? UU's 77W service CDG-RUN-SYD-NOU is still appearing in systems and in their website. Has there been an announcement that it's being cancelled at some future date?
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8308 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1911 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
When did that change happen? UU's 77W service CDG-RUN-SYD-NOU is still appearing in systems and in their website. Has there been an announcement that it's being cancelled at some future date?
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 7619 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (4 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1862 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 8): All flights are currently AFAIK on quads. B744/A340 except for RUN-SYD (which used B777), which has been been discontinued.
Nowadays all airplanes are regulated by ETOPS when flying extended overwater routes or polar ops. Some of the various requirements are being introduced on quads such as fire suppression, additional communication, etc.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4845 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1795 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
Nowadays all airplanes are regulated by ETOPS when flying extended overwater routes or polar ops. Some of the various requirements are being introduced on quads such as fire suppression, additional communication, etc.
Current quads grandfathered in until 2017, in Australian jurstriction at least.
I wouldn't be suprised if many 20th century quad designs are in fact granted concessions/wavier until their withdraw.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 23618 posts, RR: 80 Reply 15, posted (4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1617 times:
Quoting cmf (Reply 14): I know it is a FAA regulation but have all other authorities implemented it too?
EASA has implemented similar regulations for two, three-and-four engine planes, though they (at least planned to) call it LROPS - Long Range OPerationS.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4845 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1612 times:
Quoting cmf (Reply 14):
I know it is a FAA regulation but have all other authorities implemented it too?
Australia & NZ have implemented EDTO rules. EDTO = Extended Diversion Time Operations. The NZ rules are nice and clear, good luck ever getting Australian approval for ANY such operation.
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