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ILS Situation; The Sequel  
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

OK, lets take the previous "ILS Situation" and assume that you are cleared to take off on 18L on this same, slightly foggy night. As you lift off and stow the gear, you see the landing lights, coming right towards you, of this other guy who sidestepped over from the ILS 36L to land on 36R without saying anything to anybody. Do you assume that he is going to land and you try to climb over him? Do you assume that he sees you, and will initiate a go-around, so you try to go out under him? Do you assume that, whatever he does, it will be straight ahead, so you try to turn onto an offset course to parallel the runway heading and continue as cleared? Honk the horn really loud? What?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1019 times:

My vote is to honk the horn really really loudly. Also, an air-air missle probably wouldn't hurt either. Seriously, I wouldn't try to climb above him, a turn would probably be the best choice. (Followed by a visit from Guido.)

User currently onlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4205 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 991 times:

Sharpest and quickest climb with a turn i could muster without deep stalling the plane.

Then bring it around behind him and engage... get a missle lock, and show that @$$hole who's boss.  Smile



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 981 times:

Definately a turn, to the right (unless there is some overriding reason why it must be to the left).

Included in that, a few blinks of your landing light, and some "gestures" if he gets close enough to see you  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineSophieMaltese From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2064 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 968 times:

Well, first of all, why are we heading in opposite directions? It sounds like he doesn't know at all where he's going or else I'm on the wrong end of the runway. If I'm still sitting on the ground I might be inclined to just get out and haul butt and leave the plane sitting there. That really is a scary scenario because somebody is REALLY fouling up and how do you know what he will do? I'd say take off and veer to the right as soon as possible.

User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 946 times:

Unless you know the terrain by heart a turn into blind conditions is very, very risky. I fly in Switzerland where not following your SID or STAR in IMC will get you a collision with the Cumulous Granitus!


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineSkyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 933 times:

Saab2000: I would rather take the chance of a slight offset course to the right than sealing my fate by simply doing nothing.

ThirtyEcho: I think this situation is a bit far fetched, falling into the 'If I'm IFR, how do I avoid VFR planes that have wandered into a cloud?' category. The answer is.... you can't; so if you end up in a mid air it must be your unlucky day. However, just as you may get hit by a metorite or win the lottery, it MIGHT happen. If it does, just follow the right of way rules and turn to the right until clear.


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 900 times:

Skyguy- Not farfetched at all; see the other topic titled "ILS Situation." The guy is cleared ILS 36L and breaks out to see lights off to his right, so he sidesteps over unannounced and lands on 36R. In a no wind condition, you could have been cleared for takeoff on the other end of that runway, 18L, so what do you do?

User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6049 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 891 times:

According to the FAR's, Any aircrafts that are coming head on, shall turn to each pilots right. If two planes are converging, then the aircraft on the right shall have the right of way.


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1116 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 838 times:

There should be no reason why he is landing in the opposite direction. Even in no-wind conditions, ATC will still land aircraft the same direction, they will not, according to the story, have aircraft landing one direction on 36L and taking off the other direction on 36R.

User currently offlineSkyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 835 times:

^^ ESPECIALLY in IFR conditions!!! Thank you beefmoney for saying what I was going to say.

Yeah it has probabally happened in the past where they takeoff and land on parallel runways in oppisite directions, but meteors have probabaly knocked airplanes and their occupants out of the sky as well. My point is don't worry about it. If it does ever happen to you just do whatever's necessary to avoid it and save your life.


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 834 times:

A more likely situation in this case would be at an uncontrolled field where one pilot made the decision to land going one way while an aircraft was departing the other way.

User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 833 times:

Sorry folks, I've seen it happen at DAL. No wind, north side of the airport handles arrivals all vectored in to approach from the west; south side of the airport sends departures out on a parallel runway towards the west. Sidestep unnanounced, anyone?

User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1116 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 828 times:

Thirtyecho- we all know that at sometime there was a case where that has happened, its rare, but has happened, but absolutly not in the conditions that the story was set in. And even in clear conditions, if the pilot decides to sidestep to the other runway without announcing, he is stupid. But some of you are thinking that he did it accidentaly in IFR conditions? Then he obviously wasnt following the localizer very well was he? if he is low enough to see the other runway, which must be pretty far away to allow different direction takeoffs and landings, he would most definatly be in a position to see the correct runways approach lights.

User currently offlineSkyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 824 times:

I've seen it done at my home airport in VFR conditions. An few airliners took off on 1L at SNA because the wind for 19R had shifted to a tailwind, but they didn't change the active runways around because the wind was light. There was a Cessna in the pattern for 19L who was told to do right 360s so the airliner could takeoff. At no time was the Cessna even close to being on approach to the parallel runway while the airliner was taking off. And this was in VFR conditions! I'm not a controller, but I am a pilot and I don't think they would ever allow opposite departures and arrivals on closely spearated parallel runways in IFR conditions.

As far fetched as it is, your question was 'what do you do if it happens'.
The answer according to the FARs would be to turn right because you have oncoming head on traffic. Also, in an emergency, you can deviate from ANY ATC or FAR meaning you can do whatever it takes to save your life. I think an impending mid air collision can be considered an emergency therefore, do whatever it takes. When you're in the plane I garuentee you won't even think about the FARs or ATC or anything. From personal experience in an emergency I know that all you will think about is doing whatever it takes to get back to relative safety.


User currently offlineA340-313X From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 818 times:

Well, if he was ILS'ing, he'd be lower than and airplane in take-off unless you're heavily loaded!!! Another question is how wise is it to side step in IFR conditions. Which is the runway in use, it won't be one with opposing traffic in IFR. Furthermore, he'd be back tracking the ILS from 18R assuming that the runways 18R & 18L are the customary directions for TO and landing... Anyways, freaky situation, make sure you leave your brights on, turn right and extend your middle finger as you pass him... Big grin

User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 796 times:

Turn Right !
Notify the plane of your actions via your radio
Never dive in this case, it will be lethal
Renew your underwear



Shiek!
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