ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 1 Posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 917 times:
OK, lets take the previous "ILS Situation" and assume that you are cleared to take off on 18L on this same, slightly foggy night. As you lift off and stow the gear, you see the landing lights, coming right towards you, of this other guy who sidestepped over from the ILS 36L to land on 36R without saying anything to anybody. Do you assume that he is going to land and you try to climb over him? Do you assume that he sees you, and will initiate a go-around, so you try to go out under him? Do you assume that, whatever he does, it will be straight ahead, so you try to turn onto an offset course to parallel the runway heading and continue as cleared? Honk the horn really loud? What?
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 840 times:
My vote is to honk the horn really really loudly. Also, an air-air missle probably wouldn't hurt either. Seriously, I wouldn't try to climb above him, a turn would probably be the best choice. (Followed by a visit from Guido.)
SophieMaltese From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2064 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 789 times:
Well, first of all, why are we heading in opposite directions? It sounds like he doesn't know at all where he's going or else I'm on the wrong end of the runway. If I'm still sitting on the ground I might be inclined to just get out and haul butt and leave the plane sitting there. That really is a scary scenario because somebody is REALLY fouling up and how do you know what he will do? I'd say take off and veer to the right as soon as possible.
Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1608 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 767 times:
Unless you know the terrain by heart a turn into blind conditions is very, very risky. I fly in Switzerland where not following your SID or STAR in IMC will get you a collision with the Cumulous Granitus!
Skyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 754 times:
Saab2000: I would rather take the chance of a slight offset course to the right than sealing my fate by simply doing nothing.
ThirtyEcho: I think this situation is a bit far fetched, falling into the 'If I'm IFR, how do I avoid VFR planes that have wandered into a cloud?' category. The answer is.... you can't; so if you end up in a mid air it must be your unlucky day. However, just as you may get hit by a metorite or win the lottery, it MIGHT happen. If it does, just follow the right of way rules and turn to the right until clear.
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 721 times:
Skyguy- Not farfetched at all; see the other topic titled "ILS Situation." The guy is cleared ILS 36L and breaks out to see lights off to his right, so he sidesteps over unannounced and lands on 36R. In a no wind condition, you could have been cleared for takeoff on the other end of that runway, 18L, so what do you do?
Beefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1111 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 659 times:
There should be no reason why he is landing in the opposite direction. Even in no-wind conditions, ATC will still land aircraft the same direction, they will not, according to the story, have aircraft landing one direction on 36L and taking off the other direction on 36R.
Skyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 656 times:
^^ ESPECIALLY in IFR conditions!!! Thank you beefmoney for saying what I was going to say.
Yeah it has probabally happened in the past where they takeoff and land on parallel runways in oppisite directions, but meteors have probabaly knocked airplanes and their occupants out of the sky as well. My point is don't worry about it. If it does ever happen to you just do whatever's necessary to avoid it and save your life.
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week ago) and read 654 times:
Sorry folks, I've seen it happen at DAL. No wind, north side of the airport handles arrivals all vectored in to approach from the west; south side of the airport sends departures out on a parallel runway towards the west. Sidestep unnanounced, anyone?
Beefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1111 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week ago) and read 649 times:
Thirtyecho- we all know that at sometime there was a case where that has happened, its rare, but has happened, but absolutly not in the conditions that the story was set in. And even in clear conditions, if the pilot decides to sidestep to the other runway without announcing, he is stupid. But some of you are thinking that he did it accidentaly in IFR conditions? Then he obviously wasnt following the localizer very well was he? if he is low enough to see the other runway, which must be pretty far away to allow different direction takeoffs and landings, he would most definatly be in a position to see the correct runways approach lights.
Skyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 645 times:
I've seen it done at my home airport in VFR conditions. An few airliners took off on 1L at SNA because the wind for 19R had shifted to a tailwind, but they didn't change the active runways around because the wind was light. There was a Cessna in the pattern for 19L who was told to do right 360s so the airliner could takeoff. At no time was the Cessna even close to being on approach to the parallel runway while the airliner was taking off. And this was in VFR conditions! I'm not a controller, but I am a pilot and I don't think they would ever allow opposite departures and arrivals on closely spearated parallel runways in IFR conditions.
As far fetched as it is, your question was 'what do you do if it happens'.
The answer according to the FARs would be to turn right because you have oncoming head on traffic. Also, in an emergency, you can deviate from ANY ATC or FAR meaning you can do whatever it takes to save your life. I think an impending mid air collision can be considered an emergency therefore, do whatever it takes. When you're in the plane I garuentee you won't even think about the FARs or ATC or anything. From personal experience in an emergency I know that all you will think about is doing whatever it takes to get back to relative safety.
A340-313X From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 639 times:
Well, if he was ILS'ing, he'd be lower than and airplane in take-off unless you're heavily loaded!!! Another question is how wise is it to side step in IFR conditions. Which is the runway in use, it won't be one with opposing traffic in IFR. Furthermore, he'd be back tracking the ILS from 18R assuming that the runways 18R & 18L are the customary directions for TO and landing... Anyways, freaky situation, make sure you leave your brights on, turn right and extend your middle finger as you pass him...