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Stationary Aircraft And Severe Weather  
User currently offlinetrav110 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 536 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5901 times:

Was looking at the top picture today and it mentioned the spoilers were deployed and that the nosewheel had twisted. Is damage to this extent considered normal? It would seem that only tornado-like winds would have an effect on such a big plane. Would you be able to count on a relative degree of safety if inside a plane during a windstorm or tornado? What are the biggest damage risks to large planes like the 747?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinehorstroad From Germany, joined Apr 2010, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

strong winds can easily lift an aircraft and drop it several meters from its original position or just flip it over.
that´s why there is a special parking/mooring procedure for severe weather. you park the aircraft with the nose in the wind, elevator trim full nose down. if it comes to extreme winds you even chain the aircraft to the ground or fly it to another location.
there are quite some pictures in the database of single engine props flipped over by wind. this could also happen to bigger aircraft... I remembre a twin turboprop with broken landing gear after the wind lifted it up and dropped it hard, but I can´t find the picture anymore.
damage can be the same as from a hard landing or if it´s flipped over it could even end in a hull loss


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

Take a look at what some wind gusts can do!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XnHglTRkJ4

UAL


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting trav110 (Thread starter):
It would seem that only tornado-like winds would have an effect on such a big plane.

Several times a year in the Dallas area we see straight line winds in the 40-50 mph sustained area, with higher gusts. Along thunderstorm front lines as they pass by quickly, winds close to 100 have been measured. Any aircraft is at risk of damage when those type winds hit.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9803 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

Quoting trav110 (Thread starter):
What are the biggest damage risks to large planes like the 747?

The gust damping on a 747 is not strong enough on control surfaces if the winds are too high. Wind can damage the rudder, airliners or elevator. The rudder is most likely to get damaged. It can get slammed and break the structure. Inspections may be required after strong winds.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
Take a look at what some wind gusts can do!

Or here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ruv4qN6-s


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4901 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):

The Importance of Mooring especially when weather forecasts predict bad weather.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

The most recent QS addition, OK-TVT was/is/will be (not sure) re-routed, instead of a delivery to PRG as planned, it will be delivered to YYZ, where it will fly in the place of one of the other QS planes leased out to Sunwing, that was heavily damaged in a wind-related accident (the aircraft was basically blown all over the place when wind hit, as it was parked for the night or something)


The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1899 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

Not exactly a 747, but I had a dust devil pick up a C172 during fueling once and drop it upside down on the tanker. It was a perfectly calm day otherwise.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2503 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Then there's the even worse combination of both wind and ice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEJFC5AM3_o



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineCaptainKramer From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Speciality Press published a book, Magnesium Overcast The Story of the B-36. Those familiar with the
B-36 know it is a big plane with a huge wingspan, the largest bomber built for the USAF to this day. There was a picture supplement that came out as well which showed the damage sustained after a tornado had passed through one of the SAC bases in the Mid West. The high speed winds had moved a large number of planes side ways into each other and in some instances onto each other, causing considerable damage. If I recall, many borderline right offs were repaired, only because the percentage of those damaged accounted for a considerable percentage of their available deterent at the time. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

LOL I just turned over to Mythbusters and they're playing the episode where they use a 747 Cargo plane to recreate tornadic wind speeds on the TIV from Storm Chasers.

[Edited 2012-02-28 11:51:47]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25983 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3676 times:

Quoting CaptainKramer (Reply 10):
Speciality Press published a book, Magnesium Overcast The Story of the B-36. Those familiar with the
B-36 know it is a big plane with a huge wingspan, the largest bomber built for the USAF to this day. There was a picture supplement that came out as well which showed the damage sustained after a tornado had passed through one of the SAC bases in the Mid West. The high speed winds had moved a large number of planes side ways into each other and in some instances onto each other, causing considerable damage.

Dozens of photos of those damaged B-36s here (click the aircraft serial number). It was at Carswell AFB, Fort Worth TX, on September 1, 1952. All the damaged aircraft were repaired except for one. Many were new aircraft, not yet delivered (that was also the location of the B-36 assembly plant.)
http://www.cowtown.net/proweb/tornado/tornado.htm


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1899 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3484 times:

Can't find it now, but some engineer was explaining that you can get a ground effect that will cause a parked plane to redeploy upward even when the wind is below stall speed.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

I have heard about the typhoon on Tinian, during WWII, for many years but have never been able to confirm or deny the story.
Supposedly, the B-29s were faced into the wind with engines running, full nose down elevator, and were "flown" on the ground by varying power to match the surface wind speed.

Does anybody know about this?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 8):
but I had a dust devil pick up a C172 during fueling once and drop it upside down on the tanker.

Was there no forewarning....Normally there is one that advises to stop all refuelling ops.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Dust devils appear in clear air with no forewarning from clouds, lightning, etc which is normal with tornados or severe winds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_devil

We don't have them often around Dallas, but many years ago when I was at an auto race at Riverside California, I was knocked down as one formed in the infield. It blew around some chairs and a couple tents, and was gone in less than a minute. No warning at all.

[Edited 2012-03-08 06:03:34]

User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1899 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 8):
but I had a dust devil pick up a C172 during fueling once and drop it upside down on the tanker.

Was there no forewarning....Normally there is one that advises to stop all refuelling ops.

They can show up in perfectly still air. You get a hot sun on a cold morning creating a nice warm layer of air on the ground and a butterfly can cause the disturbance thatr starts the air funneling up. The big ones aren't the types you get from the wind getting redirected by a building or something. They're like small tornadoes on a good day.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 15):
Dust devils

Interesting term though.......



Think of the brighter side!
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