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How Are B747-200 And -300 Different, Besides SUD?  
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1361 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

In a thread discussing the VC-25 it was mentioned that it has a 747-300 wing on a 747-200. I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications. Which I assume are pretty significant. But was anything else changed?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
In a thread discussing the VC-25 it was mentioned that it has a 747-300 wing on a 747-200. I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications. Which I assume are pretty significant. But was anything else changed?

I know that the spiral staircase on the 742 was replaced by a straight staircase which is also seen on the 744.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days ago) and read 5158 times:

The -300 economical cruise speed is also a little faster .85 as opposed to .84 for the -200.


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

GE power is CF6-80 on the -300, it's CF6-50 on the -200.

AIUI cruise speed change follows the SUD.

So unless you have GE engines, it seems that the -300 is identical to the -200 SUD, other than the staircase. That can't be right can it?


User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

I believe that later models of the -300 had a modified wing root.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineB747FE From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2004, 230 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions

That's correct, there isn't a substantial difference other than some customer optionals (which were also available for previous models) such as the stairway and the 280 inch upper deck extension.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
I know that the spiral staircase on the 742 was replaced by a straight staircase

Another optional.
Several -100/200 (Non SUD) were built with straight stairway (Although it was Fwd straight, not Aft straight like in the -300)

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
The -300 economical cruise speed is also a little faster .85 as opposed to .84 for the -200.

Correct!
VMO/MMO however remained the same at 365/.92 or Mach .90 in RVSM airspace.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 3):
GE power is CF6-80 on the -300, it's CF6-50 on the -200.

Not entirely accurate.
While some -300 were powered by CF6-80C2B1 (C2B1F for the -400), CF6-50E2 engines were also used.

System wise, -100/200 & 300 were very similar.
Handling on the ground was exactly the same and in the air the difference was very subtle.

Regards,
B747FE.



"Flying is more than a sport and more than a job; flying is pure passion and desire, which fill a lifetime"
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4925 times:

Quoting B747FE (Reply 5):
While some -300 were powered by CF6-80C2B1 (C2B1F for the -400), CF6-50E2 engines were also used.

So it was an option? Ok, sorry.


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2143 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
In a thread discussing the VC-25 it was mentioned that it has a 747-300 wing on a 747-200. I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications. Which I assume are pretty significant. But was anything else changed?

There is no special 743 wing profile, the mentioned statement in the VC-25 thread is not correct, see reply 31 in that thread : Replacing Air Force One-748? (by hannahpa Feb 21 2012 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

The 747 wings are produced in structural strength groups, all indicated by a number. Each number has a maximum structural strength capability. All 747 "classic" aircraft with a wing 6 or higher are capable of the MTOW of 833.000 lbs, the maximum certified for the classic 747-2/300 series, with original wingspan and no winglets.

There are no significant changes, apart for the upper-deck modifications. In fact all 743 aircraft are build in the same basic number block sequence as the 742.
747-200B/300 all pax basic number block R1001-R1267
747-200B/300 combi basic number block R1531-R1629
See for explanation : http://747world-fleet.info/basic-number.html
For each produced 747 airframe you can see the Boeing identifiers on this page :
http://747world-fleet.info/variable-number.html and double click at "here" at lower side of page.



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineketa From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4874 times:

A follow-up question then... can anyone list the differences between the -300 and the -400?

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 4):
I believe that later models of the -300 had a modified wing root.

I think I read this before. Anything on this?



Where there's a will, there's a way
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2143 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

Quoting keta (Reply 8):
I believe that later models of the -300 had a modified wing root.
I think I read this before. Anything on this?

The wing root was changed with the introduction of the -400 series (L/N 696). Also several late -200 and -300 series were factory built with this re-contoured wing to body fairing, decreasing drag by 0,5%. The first was L/N 704 , a 747-336 combi for Egypt Air.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jordi Grife - Iberian Spotters


Remember that during 1989-1991 the -200,-300 and -400 series were assembled at random at the same final assembly line. In fact this factory modification was part of the 747 product improvement program.
No 747-200/300 aircraft were retrofitted with this feature, because of the relative high modification costs versus the fuel saving during the calculated remaining economical life expectancy.



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

Quoting B747FE (Reply 5):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
I know that the spiral staircase on the 742 was replaced by a straight staircase

Another optional.
Several -100/200 (Non SUD) were built with straight stairway (Although it was Fwd straight, not Aft straight like in the -300)

It was right-angled, not straight. Examples below on Transaero (ex-NZ aircraft) and PIA 742s. And what do you mean by "fwd straight"? It was aft apart from the first few steps. I've never seen a forward-facing stairway on a 747. Maybe I'm misunderstading.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team



Compared to the original spiral staircase.


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Photo © Paris Tsantis



[Edited 2012-02-23 12:44:06]

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting keta (Reply 8):
A follow-up question then... can anyone list the differences between the -300 and the -400?

One less seat in the cockpit 

Glass cockpit vs. steam gauges.

P&W JT9D option dropped-replaced with P&W4000.

IIRC, all engine choices on the -400 are FADEC.

I'm assuming that the reason the flight engineer went away is because you have computers handling things like fuel transfers automagically to keep the CG within check on a long haul flgiht?

And, of course, Winglets  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

Plus tail fuel tanks. Longer range and higher MTOW.

Is the max payload increased in the -400?


User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4476 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
IIRC, all engine choices on the -400 are FADEC.

Not entirely correct. The RB211 on the -400 is not a true FADEC. The fuel system is electronic but some engine systems are still controlled mechanically.

Hopefully someone familiar with the innards of an RB211 will fill us in on the intricacies of the control system.


User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2444 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Thread starter):
I wasn't aware that there was a substantial difference between the two versions apart from the upper deck modifications.

And let's not forget these:

747-200 SUD


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Johan Knijn photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerard Helmer



747-100 SUD


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Poowin Bunyavejchewin




Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineketa From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 4220 times:

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 14):
And let's not forget these:

Great, I thought I knew how to distinguish between 747 models, and now you come up with this!! 



Where there's a will, there's a way
User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17041 posts, RR: 66
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Quoting keta (Reply 15):
Great, I thought I knew how to distinguish between 747 models, and now you come up with this!!

It is very hard. You can look at the engines but that still won't help with -100 vs -200.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 4031 times:

Well fortunately for you most of the -100 and -200SUDs have probably been scrapped by now.

User currently offlineB747FE From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2004, 230 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
Viscount724

That's the one. Forward straight (as it's called in Boeing documents)
From the pictures you posted, it can be seen the stair is leading from the forward section of the upper deck to the forward section of zone "A". The rear straight stairway was only installed on airframes with the 280 inch extension.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
One less seat in the cockpit 

..unfortunately..


Regards,
B747FE.



"Flying is more than a sport and more than a job; flying is pure passion and desire, which fill a lifetime"
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