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Runway Capacity & Operation At LGA Question.  
User currently offlineaquablue From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

How much extra capacity does the 2nd cross runway at LGA provide compared with a single runway operation?

Also, since the runways are at right angles, how do they deal with all the cross wind situations? Are landings or takeoffs done crosswind?

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21102 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

Quoting aquablue (Thread starter):
How much extra capacity does the 2nd cross runway at LGA provide compared with a single runway operation?

Generally, about 8-12 more arrivals per hour (about 20-25%). The FAA doesn't publish a departure rate, but you'd figure a similar number of departures.

Quoting aquablue (Thread starter):
Also, since the runways are at right angles, how do they deal with all the cross wind situations? Are landings or takeoffs done crosswind?

Landings. Though they don't like to use 22 for takeoffs, so then you might see takeoffs on 13 or 31 with a crosswind.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineaquablue From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Thanks Mir. How much more flights / hour would you get if you decoupled the two runways ?

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21102 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Quoting aquablue (Reply 2):
How much more flights / hour would you get if you decoupled the two runways ?

Not sure what that means.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineaquablue From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

If you seperated the thresholds so that the two runways did overlap.

User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

LGA controllers and pilots basically have it down to a science, such that when dual runway operation is in use, the spacing between landing aircraft is the minimum required. ie... 3 miles at the outer marker for 2 likesized category aircraft. This means that no extra room is planned for a departure between the two arrivals. It is just timed that a departing aircraft will roll through the intersection when the next landing aircraft is approximately on a 1 mile final. The system generally works pretty well. It does get a little testy when the arriving aircraft are traveling down the arrival with a tailwind. I have found that the LGA controllers are not too good at compensating for the shortened travel times from the OM to the threshold. I have seen multiple go-arounds because the controllers have given takeoff clearances way too late.

The best configuration is landing 22 and departing 13 because the intersection of the runways is where both a landing and departing aircraft will be out of conflict very quickly.



There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineaquablue From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

If they had the two runways not crossing, how many more flights / hour could they have?

User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2466 times:

Quoting aquablue (Reply 6):
If they had the two runways not crossing, how many more flights / hour could they have?

A question; with no definite answer.

Honestly what do you expect from an airport built halfway on a pier between 2 other major airports.

There is just only so much airspace avaliable.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineaquablue From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2458 times:

Oh come on, why are you being so cynical and snarky to me? If you don't want to talk and you hate my question, don't answer.

I'll ask the question again to someone who is civil.

If LGA had the same layout, but each runway was independent and did not touch, would there be any capacity increases at LGA possible in terms of flights per hour?

Thank You for you civil responses.
Aqua


User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

There may be a departure rate increase if they were decoupled, but there would not be an arrival increase. The departure rate might go up about 3-7 per hour, would be my guess.

It's just theoretical though, because there is physically no room to do such an undertaking without shortening the runways to a useless length.



There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21102 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

Quoting aquablue (Reply 8):
If LGA had the same layout, but each runway was independent and did not touch, would there be any capacity increases at LGA possible in terms of flights per hour?

In one wind configuration (the one where the flight paths didn't cross), yes. Otherwise things would stay the same. Kind of a moot point, though, as there's no room to rebuild the airport to that configuration.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3139 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2087 times:

Decoupling the runways wouldn't really help as the traffic can still "cross" on go arounds. Take off on 4 and landing on 31 works well too because it's not hard to land and exit before the intersection. Spacing for arriving traffic is far les an issue since most comes in on the Mip and korry arrivals which bring you in from the south. Using 22 means a lot of vectoring. Either over the airport then doglegging to the east, or up the Hudson.

Exceeding crosswind limits knocks the place to 1 runway more than any other weather. When that happens the delays stack up fast. Since I've been based there the delays have been worst on windy days. That extra runway provides much more than 7-10 ops

It all has to do with what JFK is doing more than anything.



DMI
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