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BP Turbo Oil (Use It, Or Not To Use It)  
User currently offlineN8911E From United States of America, joined May 2012, 48 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 11237 times:

Hello Again. As you can see, I have many questions, but I will try to save the rest for later.

I have seen stickers on some engines, namely the 717s BR715 and more specifically on airTran's 717s that say USE ONLY BP TURBO OIL 2197.



Now I have to wonder, what if BP Turbo Oil 2197 is NOT used. What if Aeroshell is used, or BP Turbo Oil 2380. Will it damage the engine? I just have to wonder why an engine manufacturer specifies a specific type of oil. I use Mobil 1 in my car, but I know I can use Pennzoil, Valvoline, or anything else. Now, before anybody says "Your car engine, and a jet engine are very different." Let me say, I know that lol. However, I am just wondering what would happen if a mechanic were to use BP Turbo Oil 2380, or Aeroshell.

On a side note, Is Skydrol the only hydraulic fluid that can be used in an aircraft, and does it matter if it is LD-4 or B500?

Google Fails to answer these questions.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineneutronstar73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 11196 times:

I would probably think it is because of some marketing and product link-up between BP and Rolls Royce. Promote the engine oil manufacturers oil, and the oil company will say in its adverts "Exclusive lubricant for Rolls Royce".

Probably little difference, I think.


User currently offlineN8911E From United States of America, joined May 2012, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 11168 times:

So if I were to add Aeroshell in there when it specifically states use BP Turbo Oil 2197 (It doesn't even say I can use 2380), it wouldn't harm the engine?

User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 11121 times:

Quoting N8911E (Reply 2):
So if I were to add Aeroshell in there when it specifically states use BP Turbo Oil 2197 (It doesn't even say I can use 2380), it wouldn't harm the engine?

The answer is: you don't mix oils. Of course you can do it if oil level is low and you need to get the aircraft flying, but you don't know how the oils will react to each other.
My own company uses Mobil Jet Oil II for the CRJ and 737 fleet while we use BP 2380 for the ATR's, we allso used to do checks on KLM 737's and they used BP2197.

If your car is serviced with Mobil 1 oil you shouldn't top op with Shell or another brand either.

/Lars



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 11116 times:

Quoting N8911E (Thread starter):
Now I have to wonder, what if BP Turbo Oil 2197 is NOT used. What if Aeroshell is used, or BP Turbo Oil 2380. Will it damage the engine?

It likely will not physically damage the engine; if you screw up by mixing incompatible oils you may cause some sludge that clogs up your filters faster. There are also certain oils that only play nice with certain sealing materials; if you're really unlucky you might cause a bunch of oil leaks and have to rebuild all the oil-sealed components ($$$).

The major issue is that the oil may be written into the engine maintenance plan, in which case you've just rendered the engine un-airworthy. Which is just as useful as ruining the engine since you can't fly it anymore until you get it back in compliance.

Quoting N8911E (Thread starter):
On a side note, Is Skydrol the only hydraulic fluid that can be used in an aircraft, and does it matter if it is LD-4 or B500?

It's not the only fluid but, if you have a hydraulic system designed for Skydrol, you absolutely have to use Skydrol (and vice versa). The Skydrol and non-Skydrol seals do *not* get along with the opposite fluid.

Tom.


User currently offlineMender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11037 times:

Quoting N8911E (Thread starter):
I am just wondering what would happen if a mechanic were to use BP Turbo Oil 2380, or Aeroshell.

There are two things to consider here. Oil filled engine mounted components such as starters and generators and the actual engine itself.

If an airline changes the type of oil used in the engine then they do not drain the old oil out and refill it with the new oil. They just change the oil on an attrition basis by topping up the oil with the new brand/type from a given date and make sure no other line stations top up the oil with the old type.

The reason they do not drain the old brand of oil and refill with a different brand is that carbon deposits might be dislodged by the sudden 'shock' change of oil brand. These loose carbon deposits could then block any small oil galleries potentially causing an engine failure.

I've heard of an airline changing oil type/brand and then suffered a high number of premature generator failures. It was attributed to the fact that the oil acted as a sort of dielectric (like in a capacitor) and the two oils had a different dielectric values. The dielectric value of the new oil didn't agree with the existing generators and caused premature failure. This was sorted out by a modification to the generator. I don't know if this is actually true or not but it sounds plausible.


User currently offlineN8911E From United States of America, joined May 2012, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10989 times:

Thanks for all the information. I didn't know any of that. I honestly thought SKYDROL was the ONLY Hydraulic Fluid that could be used in modern day airliners.

User currently offlinetepidhalibut From Iceland, joined Dec 2004, 210 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10948 times:

Quoting N8911E (Thread starter):
I am just wondering what would happen if a mechanic were to use BP Turbo Oil 2380, or Aeroshell.

There's nothing physically stopping a mechanic using a non-approved oil.

I suppose if the mech is willing to take the rap if something goes wrong, then it could be his call. I mean, what's the worst that could happen??

OK .... they might want to read this.

NTSB or Edelweiss A330 Event


User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 910 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10948 times:
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1. Mobil Jet II and 2380 are 100% compatible. Our engines are actually marked for the use of either at the oil servicing port.

2. Keep in mind "Skydrol" is a brand name manuf. by Solutia Inc. There are other manufacturers of phosphate ester based fluids and Exxon HyJet is another example. We have used both at work.

Just remember that the system that you are servicing should be placarded to identify what the operator specifies. If it is not then you will have to determine it yourself.

Seems like you are trying to learn so I will add this. Never pick up a half used can/container, it could have been used to drain all sorts of nastiness from who knows where. There have been hundreds of documented cases of aircraft being serviced out of the proper container but the container held something else. Be it old engine/CSD oil, sump fuel, etc.. Also by the FAR's it is not acceptable to have a half used container, the unused portion must be properly disposed of.


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5506 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10948 times:

Quoting Mender (Reply 5):
If an airline changes the type of oil used in the engine then they do not drain the old oil out and refill it with the new oil. They just change the oil on an attrition basis by topping up the oil with the new brand/type from a given date and make sure no other line stations top up the oil with the old type.

I will disagree here. I worked for the great big widget in the sky back when they (we) were bringing the old Western 727's into the program and we drained the oil, changed the filter, serviced the oil, ran the engine, drained the oil, changed the filter, serviced the oil and then leak checked it. We did this for the CSD also.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineN8911E From United States of America, joined May 2012, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10936 times:

727s eh? I remember those things were constantly leaking oil. If you walked under the engine, you had better be wearing a hat, because more often than not, you would walk away with a drip of oil on your head. Ahhh the good old days.

User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2582 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10934 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
will disagree here. I worked for the great big widget in the sky back when they (we) were bringing the old Western 727's into the program and we drained the oil, changed the filter, serviced the oil, ran the engine, drained the oil, changed the filter, serviced the oil and then leak checked it. We did this for the CSD also.

We didn't do it that way this time around. We switched to Mobil Jet II because that is how the airline that we bought did it. Changed the placard and topped it off. I think that was the case for the entire 2380 fleet. I think they may have done the drain and fill on the MD88 which used 2197. Not sure how the components were switched.


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5506 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10905 times:

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 11):
I think they may have done the drain and fill on the MD88 which used 2197.

I don't remember what oil the Western Jets used...and to tell the truth, I don't remember what oil Delta was using circa 98-99, but, I clearly remember doing the work. I was the junior guy.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6494 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10795 times:

Quoting N8911E (Thread starter):
Now I have to wonder, what if BP Turbo Oil 2197 is NOT used. What if Aeroshell is used, or BP Turbo Oil 2380. Will it damage the engine?

Don't pay too much attention to oil manufacturer brand names. What matters is what official specifications the product fulfils. Most widely used specifications are the US "MIL-" specs.

BP Turbine Oil 2380 conforms to specification MIL-PRF-23699 Revision F STD
BP Turbine Oil 2197 conforms to specification MIL-PRF-23699 Revision F HTS

All major oil companies produce turbine oils conforming to those two specifications, for instance from Shell it is Aeroshell Turbine Oil 500 and 560 respectively.

The only difference in the two specification names is the suffix, STD and HTS respectively.
STD means "Standard", while HTS means "High Thermal Stability".

All oils, which comply to specification MIL-PRF-23699 Revision F, are technically compatible. But the HTS specification covers a wider temperature range. Therefore an HTS oil can always substitute an STD oil, while an STD oil should not be used when an HTS oil is prescribed by the engine manufacturer.

Quoting N8911E (Thread starter):
Now I have to wonder, what if BP Turbo Oil 2197 is NOT used. What if Aeroshell is used, or BP Turbo Oil 2380.

When BP 2197 is prescribed, then Aeroshell 560 is OK, while BP 2380 is not, neither is Aeroshell 500.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineN8911E From United States of America, joined May 2012, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10762 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 13):
When BP 2197 is prescribed, then Aeroshell 560 is OK, while BP 2380 is not, neither is Aeroshell 500.

So, hypothetically, if I were to put Aeroshell 560 in an engine with a BP 2197 sticker, I would NOT harm the engine?

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 8):
Seems like you are trying to learn

You would be correct =)


User currently offlinermm From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 525 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10725 times:

QF did a fleet wide conversion from MJ2 to BP2197. It was done through the attrition method. The procedure stated that this way did not shock the elastomer material in seal's and O'rings. Some APU's, IDG's & starters still have to use MJ2 until they have been overhauled. Apparently they contain incompatible seals.

User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6494 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10536 times:

Quoting N8911E (Reply 14):
So, hypothetically, if I were to put Aeroshell 560 in an engine with a BP 2197 sticker, I would NOT harm the engine?

All engines, which require MIL-PRF-23699 Revision F HTS oil, will perform equally well on both oils mentioned.

But mixing two different products, even with same specs, is sometimes not a good practice. Stick to the engine manufacturers recommendation about that.

Two oils, which fulfil the same specification, may have obtained their qualities in different ways. They may contain different additives, which are not fully compatible, so a mixture of two good oils becomes a not so good oil. I don't know whether that could apply to any MIL-PRF-23699 Revision F HTS oil, the engine manufacturers know.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineN8911E From United States of America, joined May 2012, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10218 times:

Thanks everyone for your input. This is a very informative place to learn things.  

User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 910 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10077 times:
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Quoting N8911E (Reply 17):
Thanks everyone for your input. This is a very informative place to learn things.




Keep in mind always follow the airlines procedures, you can not go wrong with that. As I said earlier we can use Mobil Jet II or Exxon 2380 at any time, but that is my airline, others will be different. If you are training to become a mech. good for you, it is a good CAREER, I say this because most airline employees have very little training or experience prior to being hired. It is a job to them, it is a career to mechs. and pilots. Alot of money spent and alot of work to get employed by a major. Good luck.


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9935 times:
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You can too mix oils.
When airlines switch from one oil to another - they typically just start topping off with the new oil.
All airlines have placards by their oil service caps as to which oil they are running.
An example of this is Airtran - they run 2397 while Southwest run 2380 or Mobil Jet II.
They are changing the placards on the engines and carry on topping with the new oil. (On the NG fleet).


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6415 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9923 times:

LOL, this entire thread reminds me of similar threads in various automotive and truck enthusiast forums I participate in   All about mixing oil from different manufacturers, mixing synthetic with "dino oil", etc., etc.


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 910 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9919 times:
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Quoting 7673mech (Reply 19):
You can too mix oils.
When airlines switch from one oil to another - they typically just start topping off with the new oil.
All airlines have placards by their oil service caps as to which oil they are running.
An example of this is Airtran - they run 2397 while Southwest run 2380 or Mobil Jet II.
They are changing the placards on the engines and carry on topping with the new oil. (On the NG fleet).

I could have sworn I said this earlier?? But this statement is not completely true. The B717 uses 2397 and I believe it is the only oil that it can use. Now for the NG's yes they are being converted. I just went through this on a downline to Wichita KS. We (WN) had an aircraft divert there and had to R&R a pack turbo fan. I needed oil but all Airtran had was 2397, had to go borrow some Mobile Jet from the contract mech. to service it. Don't know if it mattered but it and 2380 are the only oils I am allowed to service it with.


User currently offlineGrisee08 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 383 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

Seeing as how this topic has already been started, I did not want to start a semi-duplicate thread.

My question is, what engines use what oils? 717s = BP 2197 (Can, or does AirTran (for example) use Aeroshell 560?)

What about JT8Ds (basic and -200 series), CFM56, CF6, CF34, V2500, RB211, PW2000, PW4000, GE90 and the likes?

I am very curious about this as well, because there seem to be so many airports/airlines/airplanes, and I was just wondering which engines use what.

Let's say for example that Delta is flying a DC9 around, and they have to divert to a GA airport that does not handle airliners (C172s, etc only) and needed oil. What would happen in this situation? or if a 717 lands at an airport that just does not have BP 2197 in stock.

I really can't answer the question as to why I am curious about all of this (Skydrol, and now Oil)

As mentioned above, AirTran has stickers/decals that say USE ONLY BP Turbo Oil 2197. So what happens if the only thing available is Aeroshell 560 or Mobil Jet 254? Will they use it, or will they have to have some BP 2197 flown in?

[Edited 2013-04-20 00:07:27]


You're Losing The Game!
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5506 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7049 times:

I just took a peek at our MD11 AMM (the only fleet type we have left that we operate where all of our airframes came from different operators) and found that you can mix some the oils with the exception of AeroShell Turbine Oil 555/Royco Turbine Oil 555. Below is the reason given:

AeroShell Turbine Oil 555/Royco Turbine Oil 555 are strictly limited to those operators who currently use these brands. It is not approved for use for any operator who chooses a new oil brand. Because of the past negative D-sump coking experience when oil has been changed, and the use of Aeorshell Turbine Oil 555/Royco Turbine Oil 555, it is recommended that you choose another brand listed on this list if an oil brand change is required. Also, all operators who use AeroShell Turbine Oil 555/Royco Turbine Oil 555 should monitor oil pressure trend reports.

The AMM also states that you can change oil over on an attrition basis if you monitor oil pressure trends for 3 months prior to the swap over and after the swap over. At swap over, an Main Oil Strainer replacement is accomplished plus a check of the chip detectors.

I haven't checked our other books.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
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