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IAH Taxiway Nomenclature  
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22847 posts, RR: 20
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

What's the story behind the fact that all taxiways at IAH have a two letter name that starts with N, E, S, W or R and then has an identifier? I know that N, E, S, W and R are north, south, east west and ramp, and the system makes sense, but aside from a few taxiways at DFW (East and West K, L and M, and perhaps a few others), it's an unusual way to name taxiways.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9897 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2896 times:
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I suppose it's simply a convenient way to divide up the taxiways, since they exist in a few major groups. I don't know how ground control works, but could one controller be assigned to each group of taxiways? Well, I only see two ground frequencies listed, so perhaps not (airport diagram from Airnav):

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1206/05461AD.PDF

It is sort of odd, though.

Also, the northern runway's taxiways are F_, and there's also a taxiway CC.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
Also, the northern runway's taxiways are F



The "F" is friggin far!!  

Before the north runway was built the taxiway nomenclature made fairly good sense and other than the "CC" and far north junk still does.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
I don't know how ground control works



Ground control is divided up as the frequency chart on the airport diagram indicates.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2283 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

I know the gentleman who came up with the taxiways at IAH and as is stated above, N for north etc. The F really is for "far away." I speant 5 years working at IAH tower and after a few weeks you just get used to the wierd nomenclature.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9897 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2573 times:
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Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 2):
Quoting atct (Reply 3):

In your opinions, is the taxiway nomenclature at IAH superior to other airports that have "normal" taxiway names?

Was there a particular reason for the nonstandard nomenclature at IAH?

Thanks.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):
In your opinions, is the taxiway nomenclature at IAH superior to other airports that have "normal" taxiway names?



IMHO absolutely NOT, It just made sense right up till you get to the "F" and "CC"!! I don't know of many runway incursions that happen at IAH and some of that can be attributed to the taxiway names, but that's only WAG.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):
Was there a particular reason for the nonstandard nomenclature at IAH?



So the tower controllers didn't have to translate two different items (letter/number)!!!!         

Other than the dual letters rather than using a letter and number, what else is nonstandard? And who sets those standards for taxiway naming?

When you look at ATL, DFW, and LAX there seems to be simply random assignment of the letter and then the numbers flow nicely, maybe they are nonstandard? Some much smarter than I will have an answer I'd bet.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2283 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

I dont know if its any better or not. I can say that it has helped and caused confusion at the same time. The standard taxi from Spot 1 to 15L (the busiest departure "route") is lets say....

"Continental (See what I did there?    ) 1245, Houston Ground, Runway 15L, taxi via WG, WA, WV"
Those who would let their phraseology slip a little (I know not WHO would ever do such a thing) would say;
"Continental 1245, Ground, Runway 15L, taxi via Whiskey's Gulf, Alpha, and Victor"


This is pretty simple until you get into the 100% legal way to say some of the longer taxis such as Spot 5/6 to Runway 33R;
"JetLink 2611, Ground, Runway 33R, taxi via ND, NC, WW, WA"
which would possibly be shortened to;
"JetLink 2611, Ground, Runway 33R, taxi via NC, WA"
(The above is just a sample, as 99% of the time a hold short would be in there somewhere)

As IAHFLYR said, tower people are very simple folk who often get numbers and letters confused   

ATCT
High Speed Aluminum Radio Detection and Ranging Efficiency Consultant



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2693 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Unnecessarily long labels and readbacks due to the absurd labeling of the taxiways combined with the non-standard and annoying calling of clearance delivery after engines are started makes IAH rank at the very top, the #1 spot, of my personal list of airports with undesirable ATC practices.

The 4000' level-off on the way out in moderate chop through thermals is the icing on the cake for this place.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 7):
The 4000' level-off on the way out in moderate chop through thermals is the icing on the cake for this place.



You suggest a better plan with traffic above you at 5,000', below you at 3,000', and give me a plan.....oh and by the way, in weather all bets are off as I trust you know!

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 7):
Unnecessarily long labels and readbacks due to the absurd labeling of the taxiways combined with the non-standard and annoying calling of clearance delivery after engines are started



Yep, pretty stupid isn't it.....so give a solution to the problem of the absurd labeling of the taxiways, then ATCT can give the folks he left behind a way to avoid the totally silly call back to CD in order to taxi from Spot 1 while you are sitting still.

P.S. Hey GoBoeing, don't you bid your routes? If so then don't bid IAH or any other place you can't deal with the clearance you accepted in the first place.  Smile These rules are in place for your protection as well as others who have to deal with air traffic and other situations.

I'm sure NextGen will cure all.

[Edited 2012-06-12 16:02:42]


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2693 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Hi IAHFLYR,

Sounds like you are as much a skeptic of NextGen as I. And most everyone else for that matter?

I hope you don't take my post as complaining. I was merely pointing out how odd it seems to have the taxiways all have longer labels than necessary.

We're paid by the minute, I no longer come through IAH nearly as much as I used to, and it's no big deal to have some different ATC practices. Actually puts a little variety into the mix. But I always have to "raise an eyebrow" coming in and out of IAH, since there are not one, not two, but three things that don't seem to be found anywhere else in the USA's class B airports.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 8):
You suggest a better plan with traffic above you at 5,000', below you at 3,000', and give me a plan.....oh and by the way, in weather all bets are off as I trust you know!

Not sure I have a suggestion but it seems like everywhere else that's not too constrained for airspace has a level-off below 10,000' be an exception rather than the norm. At IAH it seems to lean towards the other way around with the extensive 4000' departure being fairly common. Perhaps other airports sacrifice the immediate "point in the right direction" that IAH does feature, which is nice, but on a hot summer day with the bases of cumulus clouds nice and grey and lift and sink everywhere, I personally would rather fly the wrong way for a minute or two to get above the haze and bumps!

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 8):
Yep, pretty stupid isn't it.....so give a solution to the problem of the absurd labeling of the taxiways

Well, this one I just can't reply to without sounding like a jerk, so apologies in advance.  

Name the taxiways like everywhere else in the country. One letter each for straightaways and attach a number for turnoffs and connectors until the alphabet runs out and then start some doubles like AA, BB, CC at LGA.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 8):
then ATCT can give the folks he left behind a way to avoid the totally silly call back to CD in order to taxi from Spot 1 while you are sitting still.

When I saw this thread I couldn't think of the screename but I knew someone on here had IAH ATC in their profile and I was hoping you'd reply because I've meant to ask this for a while now.

Could you shed some light on why clearance is called when an aircraft is at a spot ready to taxi?

I know the real clearance is generally all taken care of with the PDC but my question is why have the actual clearance delivery frequency used for this instead of a separate metering frequency?

Only reason I ask is this. One time we were leaving and there was nobody in line at 15L/R at all. We had just switched over from ramp to clearance and a corporate or private aircraft had just called for their clearance. They did not have PDC so it was a full route clearance. So we set the parking brake and sat at our ramp exit spot while this aircraft got a full route clearance, then read it back, then clearance corrected part of it, then they read that back to confirm, then clearance confirmed that was correct. Only after all of that, which lasted 60-90 seconds, we were able to call clearance delivery and all they did was tell us to switch to monitor ground on 118.57. All we could do was shake our heads at that. 60-90 seconds doesn't sound like a big deal but when there's nobody in front of us for takeoff and there still wasn't by the time we got to 15L/R, what the IAH policy of call the clearance freq. when ready to taxi did in that instance directly resulted in probably $10-15 in fuel wasted. If we were in a 777, that would probably be $50-80.

Again, I'm not complaining, but I am genuinely curious as to why it is setup like that. I know that the clearance position does have a function at that point besides just handing the plane over to ground and verifying the ATIS, but it seems to be on the wrong frequency.


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2283 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

CD does what Metering does at ORD etc. The reason you call CD is to be switched to the correct ground and start the official taxi meter time. Ramp could but....I wont go there. We had a system we tried back in 2007 I believe where you monitored the correct ground but became a rather large goatrope during thunderstorms and re-routes and after 10 minutes a pilot would call up the wrong ground asking "why arent I moving" and its because ra,p placed them on the wrong ground. On paper it sounded great, in actuality it was a nightmare, so back to the current system.

I dont live in Houston anymore (yay!) but the procedures worked pretty well. My current facility stops departures at 4 and I have flown through alot of places that "tunnel under the downwind" like IAH.

ATCT

[Edited 2012-06-12 17:57:55]

[Edited 2012-06-12 17:59:02]


"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 9):
Sounds like you are as much a skeptic of NextGen as I

Not sure it even gets as deep as skeptical!  
Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 9):
I hope you don't take my post as complaining

Not even close to complaining, makes me curious at times as well from watching as well as driving around the place in an airplane.

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 9):
But I always have to "raise an eyebrow" coming in and out of IAH, since there are not one, not two, but three things that don't seem to be found anywhere else in the USA's class B airports.

Would you please expand on that thought?

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 9):
We're paid by the minute

Sure hear that a bunch, not what ya want to hear when you're sitting in the back attempting to make a close connection. What the heck, I'm paid by the transmission so start getting ready for reroutes!!!  
Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 9):
All we could do was shake our heads at that. 60-90 seconds doesn't sound like a big deal but when there's nobody in front of us for takeoff and there still wasn't by the time we got to 15L/R

All I can tell ya is that it's mind boggling. Even 30 seconds of a delay gets to be closer to 5-6 minutes of delay as the push increases, and that is if things are running smooth which always happens......aahh no.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
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