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NZ RAR-LAX Flights Questions  
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2706 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4214 times:

Have noticed that NZ routes a weekly B737-300ER to/from LAX via RAR in addition to the AKL non-stop flights.
What kind of ETOPS is required for that route?
If NZ has separate crews for B767-300ER, Do NZ keep that specific aircraft on LAX tarmac for as long as it's the required minimum crew rest-time?
Is that flight operating under some kind of arrangement between NZ (and/or the New Zealand government) and the Cook Islands government?
How often NZ has to use that RAR flight as a back-up flight to its current LAX non-stop?
Are the Cook Islands catching up as an exotic yet easily reachable leisure destination for people in California?


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20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):

Is that flight operating under some kind of arrangement between NZ (and/or the New Zealand government) and the Cook Islands government?

They're practically joined at the hip. NZ are the logical choice to operate the service.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1984 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
Have noticed that NZ routes a weekly B737-300ER to/from LAX via RAR

They use a 767-300ER for that route.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4136 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
If NZ has separate crews for B767-300ER, Do NZ keep that specific aircraft on LAX tarmac for as long as it's the required minimum crew rest-time?

IIRC all long haul crews are trained on the B763

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
Is that flight operating under some kind of arrangement between NZ (and/or the New Zealand government) and the Cook Islands government?

Yes its between NZ and the Cook Islands Government as its a vital link between LAX and RAR for freight and food. The Cook Islands helps fund the weekly flight.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
Are the Cook Islands catching up as an exotic yet easily reachable leisure destination for people in California?

On a recent trip report on a.net from member 'Vio' he said around 100 people were on board his recent LAX-RAR flight. Cook Islands can be reached on the weekly NZ flight, via AKL on NZ and DJ and via SYD on NZ.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4121 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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During the New Zealand school holidays NZ frequently upgrades its A320s on the route to more B763s, B772s, B77Ws and B744s. THe SYD service is operated by a B763

User currently offlineaa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
On a recent trip report on a.net from member 'Vio' he said around 100 people were on board his recent LAX-RAR flight. Cook Islands can be reached on the weekly NZ flight, via AKL on NZ and DJ and via SYD on NZ.

I vacationed in RAR for a week several years back. Flew LAX-RAR-LAX.

My flights were both full, though around 65% of the people on the flights were terminating at LAX or AKL not RAR.

It was a great flight. I actually uploaded a video of it on Youtube.



Go big or go home
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
Is that flight operating under some kind of arrangement between NZ (and/or the New Zealand government) and the Cook Islands government?

The Cook Islands Govt provides a subsidy to keep this flight going or it may possibly not exist. Their Govt believes it reaps in far more in benefits than the amount they pay Air NZ to operate this flight.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2):
They use a 767-300ER for that route.

1st mention was a typo. thanks for noticing.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
IIRC all long haul crews are trained on the B763

So a NZ crew which arrived from LHR could be lucky enough to fly B767-300ER back to AKL?
Is there a change of crew on RAR too?



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Flew the 767 a year and a half ago, flight durning x-mas holiday was full LAX to RAR and return, but 2-3-2 on the 767 with advanced AVOD and leather seats were a pleasure. Perhaps I will do it again this year. There is a pretty hefty departure tax, like $40, I am sure that helps subsidize the service.

[Edited 2012-07-05 19:27:55]

User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3604 times:

The London Crew only operate the LHR-LAX/HKG route and VV the other routes are carried out by NZ crew mainly from New Zealand, or from the LAX base. so the RAR flight would be flown by one of them fingers crossed they can increase to 3x weekly when the 787's arrive.


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3439 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 3): IIRC all long haul crews are trained on the B763
So a NZ crew which arrived from LHR could be lucky enough to fly B767-300ER back to AKL?
Is there a change of crew on RAR too?

No, all LHR crews only operate sectors to LAX and HKG

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 9):
or from the LAX base

Since when did NZ have an LAX crew base?


User currently offlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Since when did NZ have an LAX crew base?

You're quite correct in that they don't.

The Flight crew that operate the RAR-LAX flight have their required rest in L.A. then passenger back to Auckland. The crew operating LAX-RAR will have passengered up a day or so earlier from Auckland, had some rest then operate the outbound service. I've never looked at the cabin crew roster so can't say for certain but would expect something similar from them.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
What kind of ETOPS is required for that route?

There is a very slight fly around at ETOPS-180.


User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

I'll be taking the LAX-RAR-LAX flight on August 26th and Returning Sept 1st. I can't wait for this trip. I've been wondering how many people take this flight.

For those of you who have been there.. Did you Like Rarotonga (and I'm going to Aitutaki)?

How much runway does the plane typically use up leaving RAR? It's only about 7500 ft long.



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 11):
The Flight crew that operate the RAR-LAX flight have their required rest in L.A. then passenger back to Auckland. The crew operating LAX-RAR will have passengered up a day or so earlier from Auckland, had some rest then operate the outbound service. I've never looked at the cabin crew roster so can't say for certain but would expect something similar from them.

So the RAR-LAX (or is it AKL-RAR-LAX) crew doesn't return to AKL as crew on a non-.stop flight? Same for the LAX-RAR(-AKL) flying as crew to LAX.
So even if

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
IIRC all long haul crews are trained on the B763

It's not common to work to and from in different aircraft types.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 14):
So the RAR-LAX (or is it AKL-RAR-LAX) crew doesn't return to AKL as crew on a non-.stop flight? Same for the LAX-RAR(-AKL) flying as crew to LAX.
So even if

He was talking about Flight Crew, ie pilots. If the cabin crew are trained on all long haul types, (i'm not sure if they are or not) then they would crew a LAX-AKL non stop service i'd imagine.


User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3166 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 13):
For those of you who have been there.. Did you Like Rarotonga (and I'm going to Aitutaki)?

I find Aitutaki a bit boring, not much to do but sit on the beach and eat IIRC. I did enjoy snorkeling in the lagoon. It is really beautiful, so I always recommend a day trip for people going to Rarotonga. Rarotonga has a bunch of nice restaurants and you can spend some time walking and bicycling as well as enjoying several beaches.

My hotel offered a bike tour of Raro. It turned out it was just a guided trip one third of the way round the island. When I said I wanted to continue around, the guide warned me it would be much longer. I think the whole island is 20 miles around! Then she asked me if I could find my way alone. There is only one road most of the way around! I told her that if I missed the hotel I'd just go around again.

Strange to be in a place where the maximum road journey is 10 miles. The next day the hotel staff referred to me as the guy who went all the way around. They never go more than 10 miles.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

Is there a demand for another weekly frequency between RAR and LAX, even if it's a back-up one-stop AKL-LAX?
Probably RAR could get more U.S. tourists if shorter holidays than one whole week on Rarotonga would be available.
Since the Cook Islands are New Zealand, the RAR-AKL flight is domestic or international?
Does NZ B767-300ER are OK to fly RAR-South America non-stop?



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2972 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 17):
Does NZ B767-300ER are OK to fly RAR-South America non-stop?I'm not on CM's

It is only about 4675nm plus a minor ETOPS180 fly around. Should be doable but would need to check the westbound sector.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 18):
It is only about 4675nm plus a minor ETOPS180 fly around. Should be doable but would need to check the westbound sector.

That 4675nm would probably be RAR-TYL (Talara, Perú; the most western part of South America).

Here are the distances from www.gcmap.com between RAR and Star Alliance hubs on the other side of the South Pacific:

RAR (21°12'10"S 159°48'20"W) PTY (9°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) 78.2° (E) 5074 nm
RAR (21°12'10"S 159°48'20"W) LIM (12°01'19"S 77°06'52"W) 98.8° (E) 4748 nm

From www.gcmap.com map of those routes w/ETOPS180, LIM-RAR has no ETOPS no-go zones, PTY-RAR does.
Don't know how accurate those maps are but the major airport on the French Marquesas Islands and Galapagos GPS aren't counted for ETOPS. That and the 5074nm most short distance in between RAR and PTY would present some ugly challenges for such a route.
On the westbound sector is PPT which may probably be the unscheduled tech-stop quite often.

Air France used to fly a similar route to RAR-LIM from PPT with B707 at that time.
Today the only South Pacific LIM has is LAN LIM-IPC, which doesn't seem to continue to PPT.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 19):
That 4675nm would probably be RAR-TYL (Talara, Perú; the most western part of South America).

Sorry, it is RAR-SCL.


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