747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1789 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4889 times:
Nice video, but is it not required anymore to perform a test flight after a (744) D-check. Within my company (KL) it was always required to perform a test-flight (with a full cockpit crew + flight test engineer) , because not all flight modes can be simulated 100% on the ground.
DarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 984 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4887 times:
Yeah, that was great. I remember reading about this a few weeks back when it aired. Sure am glad someone UL'd it to Youtube. I also agree that it was very good that they didn't use all manner of noises/gags/effects/personal drama stories that certainly would have been the case if it had been made here. Well done beeb.
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I'm not sure about the status of check flights these days, but I think they are a great idea. My first employer never performed test flights after D checks. The only time I witnessed a test flight was after working on a 747SP which was having major problems with its aileron / spoiler system. We spent four whole days with another crew re-rigging the entire system, so I could certainly see the need for a test flight in this case. The only aircraft I was aware of that routinely performed test flights after heavy maintenance was the RAAF 707.
Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1551 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4825 times:
Brilliant show, the scale of things is just amazing, most people don't realize how complex airplanes are under its skin. Thumbs up for British people, I love the attitude.
saafnav From South Africa, joined Mar 2010, 206 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4764 times:
In the Air Force, you have to do a Test Flight after maintenance on major flight controls. We also do systems checks after maintenance/repairs on Undercarriage and engine.
After a Major Service (which is about the same as D Check), we do a 4 hour check flight..
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2080 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4594 times:
Absolutely love documentaries like these, keeps my love for aviation intact
It is very good to know that aircraft are taken such good care of, let us hope that it never changes, though as discussed in another tech/ops thread - MROs are struggling to find and keep god mechanics because they don't want to pay them more, and so mechanics leave for other jobs. It will be interesting to see how this develops during the next few years.
DarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 984 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4472 times:
Max,
Yes and no. Many can be (and indeed are) "rolled" into C, B, engine B, A, weekly, and service checks. However, there are some items that require NDT that are nigh on impossible to get to without removing large assemblies and/or airframe sections. It's still best to group these together (especially when their time outs are already closely synched) into a D check or HMV.
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tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 13, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4452 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 11): Isn't there a way that D checks can be avoided now, with sort of 'heavy' C checks done more often ?
It all depends on what maintenance program the airplane was certified under. The MSG-3 system doesn't absolutely require D-checks. Some aircraft done since the 747-400 don't have D's at all (pure MSG-3 airplanes don't actually have required letter checks, although many are operated that way).
But, once you've certified with D checks in the maintenance plan, it's a huge amount of work to engineer them out. Most of the time, it's not worth it.
Max Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3293 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4425 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):
It all depends on what maintenance program the airplane was certified under. The MSG-3 system doesn't absolutely require D-checks. Some aircraft done since the 747-400 don't have D's at all (pure MSG-3 airplanes don't actually have required letter checks, although many are operated that way).
But, once you've certified with D checks in the maintenance plan, it's a huge amount of work to engineer them out. Most of the time, it's not worth it.
What is the MSG3 system ?
And another question, I get the impression there are fewer and fewer facilities in N America these days capable of doing a D check on a widebody. Is this true ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
Maintenance Steering Group 3. From what I know, the MSG system aims to replace rigidly defined maintenance periods with an on condition system. Here are some links on the subject.
Fair enough. I always wondered why we didn't do test flights after D checks, but then again, we never seemed to encounter problems from not doing them.
I was most impressed by the fact that BA seemed to keep all maintenance functions in-house at their facility in Wales. Escape slides, toilets, seats, engines, IFE, avionics etc., it all seemed to be done in the one facility.
Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
And another question, I get the impression there are fewer and fewer facilities in N America these days capable of doing a D check on a widebody. Is this true ?
There's about to be one fewer, when US.. I mean AA closes the AFW MRO. But to answer your question, yes, there are fewer stations specializing in this these days. There are still facilities throughout the US, and more than people think, but the fact is that more and more of this work is going overseas or to central america, where it can be done cheaper. As with anything, the quality and timeliness of the work does vary, but it gets the job done for the airlines this way. In fact, there are many airlines in this country who no longer even do their own C checks, however most of this is still outsourced locally...
Again, this was an awesome show, & I think it's really great BBC didn't try to ham it up.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 17, posted (9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4283 times:
Quoting jetmech (Reply 15): Fair enough. I always wondered why we didn't do test flights after D checks, but then again, we never seemed to encounter problems from not doing them.
Out here post Check D, there is a Test flight carried out.......before the Aircraft gets back into service.
could be that the flight back to LHR is the test flight. I would think any problems could be worked out by BA at LHR.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):
And another question, I get the impression there are fewer and fewer facilities in N America these days capable of doing a D check on a widebody. Is this true ?
Well, some place *can* do them but don't. Delta could do HMVs in Atlanta and maybe MSP but doesn't do them. UA at SFO should be able to do them. I think AA does them on the 777s at TUL. (soon to be in China)
The thing is HKG and PEK are the favorite spots. Will stay that way till the government fixes this mess.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
AAosm From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4226 times:
After watching this video it all looks like what I see everyday at work. This was a good show and did a pretty darn good job at showing what it's like on one of these getting a heavy check. I only get to see 767/777 getting heavy checks.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8590 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4205 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19): AFAIK, CX does most heavy maintenance in Xiamen... Certainly all their cabin upgrades.
He asked about North America, So I'm talking about North American carriers.
DL and CO have HMVs done by HAECO.
UA has work done in PEK by AMECO. The UA 747 work was done in ICN but i believe it has also moved to AMECO.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15872 posts, RR: 66 Reply 22, posted (9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4171 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 21): Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
AFAIK, CX does most heavy maintenance in Xiamen... Certainly all their cabin upgrades.
He asked about North America, So I'm talking about North American carriers.
Point, but I was pointing out that HKG is hardly your "outsourcing haven" anymore for any industry. Hasn't been for a decade. It is a very highly developed, high salary marketplace.
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3694 posts, RR: 34 Reply 24, posted (9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4028 times:
Quoting jetmech (Reply 15): I was most impressed by the fact that BA seemed to keep all maintenance functions in-house at their facility in Wales. Escape slides, toilets, seats, engines, IFE, avionics etc., it all seemed to be done in the one facility.
Actually different facilities, but close together, and all owned by BA except the engine shop.
Once the engine needs more than powerplant work, it goes to GE, which is also in Wales and just down the road.
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18): could be that the flight back to LHR is the test flight. I would think any problems could be worked out by BA at LHR.
It is not a test flight, and an ordinary crew flies it, but occasionaly they will find a problem that needs fixing. But the aircraft is scheduled out of LHR the same evening.
The A320 and B734 operate scheduled pax service when they leave GLA D checks. The B734 may have had a manual reversion test flight before, but only if necessary due elevator of aileron work.
25 DocLightning: Jetmech, I have a bone to pick with you: I stayed up too late last night watching this and it's ALL YOUR FAULT! Really cool documentary. I have a que
26 tdscanuck: MSG-3 is somewhat independent of the shift to on-condition maintenance (although that shift is definitely happening). MSG-3 basically tries to identi
27 tdscanuck: It wasn't a scheduled revenue flight so it doesn't have to be operated under whatever the CAA equivalent to FAA Part 121 is. There is no regulation f
28 N243NW: Not quite...they are currently done at AFW and will eventually move overseas. No one has said anything about China specifically yet. The 767s are als
29 jetmech: Is this the facility GE purchased as part of the deal for BA to selected GE's for their first batch of 777's? I'm glad to see the documentary held yo
30 Starlionblue: I was very impressed with this docu, but one thing really astounded me. THEY EXPLAINED LIFT CORRECTLY!!! You can tell they are engineers because right
31 tdscanuck: It's a joint effort. MSG-3 programs are put together by the OEMs and airlines working together. The OEM's need to make sure the intervals are all cor
32 imiakhtar: Yes. This press release only mentions the CFM56 and RB211-524. Is GE contracted for MRO of the V2500 and Trent 800 too? EVENDALE, Ohio - British Airw
33 saafnav: I see it as light: It's a wave, it's a particle. Use whichever gives the correct answer for your situation! When we did basic aerodynamics relating t
34 tdscanuck: There's nothing wrong with Bernoulli, even related to inverted flight. The problem is the explanation of *why* the air speeds up. It's the (totally w
35 Starlionblue: The expression I stole for this is that Bernouilli is "correct but incomplete" as an explanation of lift. Besides, starting with F=ma is a much simpl
36 saafnav: Ah cheap shot! Had to make it interesting!
37 HAWK21M: Similiar to a debate we had at work the other day.....went on inconclusive.....
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