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747 D Check Documentary  
User currently offlinejetmech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2699 posts, RR: 53
Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6770 times:

G'day All,

I happened to find this video on Youtube. Quite an interesting documentary about a BA 744 D check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yHtfGH0nI&feature=share

Regards, JetMech


JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6726 times:
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I saw it shortly after it aired last month on BBC. Very interesting and informative.

User currently offlinesaafnav From South Africa, joined Mar 2010, 285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

I watched it last night.

Very interesting and good quality.. And mostly without the normal sensationalism of American programs.

Erich



On-board Direction Consultant
User currently offlinejetmech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2699 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6471 times:

Quoting saafnav (Reply 2):

I agree; it was great to see this type of program without superfluous hype or patronising explanations.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2198 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

Nice video, but is it not required anymore to perform a test flight after a (744) D-check. Within my company (KL) it was always required to perform a test-flight (with a full cockpit crew + flight test engineer) , because not all flight modes can be simulated 100% on the ground.


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6448 times:

Yeah, that was great. I remember reading about this a few weeks back when it aired. Sure am glad someone UL'd it to Youtube. I also agree that it was very good that they didn't use all manner of noises/gags/effects/personal drama stories that certainly would have been the case if it had been made here. Well done beeb.


Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinejetmech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2699 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

Quoting 747classic (Reply 4):

I'm not sure about the status of check flights these days, but I think they are a great idea. My first employer never performed test flights after D checks. The only time I witnessed a test flight was after working on a 747SP which was having major problems with its aileron / spoiler system. We spent four whole days with another crew re-rigging the entire system, so I could certainly see the need for a test flight in this case. The only aircraft I was aware of that routinely performed test flights after heavy maintenance was the RAAF 707.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Amazing video.....Looks def one of the 1st filming permission during a Check D.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

Brilliant show, the scale of things is just amazing, most people don't realize how complex airplanes are under its skin. Thumbs up for British people, I love the attitude.

User currently offlinesaafnav From South Africa, joined Mar 2010, 285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

In the Air Force, you have to do a Test Flight after maintenance on major flight controls. We also do systems checks after maintenance/repairs on Undercarriage and engine.

After a Major Service (which is about the same as D Check), we do a 4 hour check flight..

Erich



On-board Direction Consultant
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2223 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6155 times:
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Absolutely love documentaries like these, keeps my love for aviation intact  

It is very good to know that aircraft are taken such good care of, let us hope that it never changes, though as discussed in another tech/ops thread - MROs are struggling to find and keep god mechanics because they don't want to pay them more, and so mechanics leave for other jobs. It will be interesting to see how this develops during the next few years.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently onlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4751 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

Fascinating.


Isn't there a way that D checks can be avoided now, with sort of 'heavy' C checks done more often ?



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6033 times:

Max,

Yes and no. Many can be (and indeed are) "rolled" into C, B, engine B, A, weekly, and service checks. However, there are some items that require NDT that are nigh on impossible to get to without removing large assemblies and/or airframe sections. It's still best to group these together (especially when their time outs are already closely synched) into a D check or HMV.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
Isn't there a way that D checks can be avoided now, with sort of 'heavy' C checks done more often ?

It all depends on what maintenance program the airplane was certified under. The MSG-3 system doesn't absolutely require D-checks. Some aircraft done since the 747-400 don't have D's at all (pure MSG-3 airplanes don't actually have required letter checks, although many are operated that way).

But, once you've certified with D checks in the maintenance plan, it's a huge amount of work to engineer them out. Most of the time, it's not worth it.

Tom.


User currently onlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4751 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5986 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):

It all depends on what maintenance program the airplane was certified under. The MSG-3 system doesn't absolutely require D-checks. Some aircraft done since the 747-400 don't have D's at all (pure MSG-3 airplanes don't actually have required letter checks, although many are operated that way).

But, once you've certified with D checks in the maintenance plan, it's a huge amount of work to engineer them out. Most of the time, it's not worth it.

What is the MSG3 system ?


And another question, I get the impression there are fewer and fewer facilities in N America these days capable of doing a D check on a widebody. Is this true ?



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinejetmech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2699 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5912 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):
What is the MSG3 system

Maintenance Steering Group 3. From what I know, the MSG system aims to replace rigidly defined maintenance periods with an on condition system. Here are some links on the subject.

MSG-3 Maintenance Planning System (by MD11Engineer Feb 22 2009 in Tech Ops)
http://www.aviationtoday.com/am/cate...bga/Understanding-MSG-3_33062.html

There is an MSG document on the net which details the workings of the system, but I can't seem to find it. Wikipedia has no info either   .

Quoting saafnav (Reply 9):

Fair enough. I always wondered why we didn't do test flights after D checks, but then again, we never seemed to encounter problems from not doing them.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 10):

I was most impressed by the fact that BA seemed to keep all maintenance functions in-house at their facility in Wales. Escape slides, toilets, seats, engines, IFE, avionics etc., it all seemed to be done in the one facility.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5874 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):


And another question, I get the impression there are fewer and fewer facilities in N America these days capable of doing a D check on a widebody. Is this true ?

There's about to be one fewer, when US.. I mean AA closes the AFW MRO. But to answer your question, yes, there are fewer stations specializing in this these days. There are still facilities throughout the US, and more than people think, but the fact is that more and more of this work is going overseas or to central america, where it can be done cheaper. As with anything, the quality and timeliness of the work does vary, but it gets the job done for the airlines this way. In fact, there are many airlines in this country who no longer even do their own C checks, however most of this is still outsourced locally...


Again, this was an awesome show, & I think it's really great BBC didn't try to ham it up.

Also, be sure to check these out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ODDjsK0BOg&feature=related

"How to build a Nuclear Submarine"

And if you ever want to know what the "real" Red October is like....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSDYOdQ9YiQ&feature=related

This whole series is great...



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5844 times:

Quoting jetmech (Reply 15):
Fair enough. I always wondered why we didn't do test flights after D checks, but then again, we never seemed to encounter problems from not doing them.

Out here post Check D, there is a Test flight carried out.......before the Aircraft gets back into service.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting 747classic (Reply 4):

could be that the flight back to LHR is the test flight. I would think any problems could be worked out by BA at LHR.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):

And another question, I get the impression there are fewer and fewer facilities in N America these days capable of doing a D check on a widebody. Is this true ?

Well, some place *can* do them but don't. Delta could do HMVs in Atlanta and maybe MSP but doesn't do them. UA at SFO should be able to do them. I think AA does them on the 777s at TUL. (soon to be in China)

The thing is HKG and PEK are the favorite spots. Will stay that way till the government fixes this mess.



yep.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17118 posts, RR: 66
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5808 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18):
The thing is HKG and PEK are the favorite spots. Will stay that way till the government fixes this mess.

AFAIK, CX does most heavy maintenance in Xiamen... Certainly all their cabin upgrades. So much for HKG.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAAosm From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5787 times:

After watching this video it all looks like what I see everyday at work. This was a good show and did a pretty darn good job at showing what it's like on one of these getting a heavy check. I only get to see 767/777 getting heavy checks.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5766 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
AFAIK, CX does most heavy maintenance in Xiamen... Certainly all their cabin upgrades.

He asked about North America, So I'm talking about North American carriers.
DL and CO have HMVs done by HAECO.
UA has work done in PEK by AMECO. The UA 747 work was done in ICN but i believe it has also moved to AMECO.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
So much for HKG.

errr. So much for CX being in North America...



yep.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17118 posts, RR: 66
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5732 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 21):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
AFAIK, CX does most heavy maintenance in Xiamen... Certainly all their cabin upgrades.

He asked about North America, So I'm talking about North American carriers.

Point, but I was pointing out that HKG is hardly your "outsourcing haven" anymore for any industry. Hasn't been for a decade. It is a very highly developed, high salary marketplace.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 21):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
So much for HKG.

errr. So much for CX being in North America...

Again, I was pointing out that PEK and HKG are very very different places. It's like comparing NYC and Mexico City...



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1729 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
AFAIK, CX does most heavy maintenance in Xiamen... Certainly all their cabin upgrades. So much for HKG.

Quite a few CX planes at HAECO last week.

Virgin is reconfiguring their 744 fleet there too.

Of course UA/CO is cycling their 767 fleet though too.


User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4052 posts, RR: 33
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5589 times:

Quoting jetmech (Reply 15):
I was most impressed by the fact that BA seemed to keep all maintenance functions in-house at their facility in Wales. Escape slides, toilets, seats, engines, IFE, avionics etc., it all seemed to be done in the one facility.

Actually different facilities, but close together, and all owned by BA except the engine shop.
Once the engine needs more than powerplant work, it goes to GE, which is also in Wales and just down the road.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18):
could be that the flight back to LHR is the test flight. I would think any problems could be worked out by BA at LHR.

It is not a test flight, and an ordinary crew flies it, but occasionaly they will find a problem that needs fixing. But the aircraft is scheduled out of LHR the same evening.

The A320 and B734 operate scheduled pax service when they leave GLA D checks. The B734 may have had a manual reversion test flight before, but only if necessary due elevator of aileron work.


25 Post contains images DocLightning : Jetmech, I have a bone to pick with you: I stayed up too late last night watching this and it's ALL YOUR FAULT! Really cool documentary. I have a que
26 tdscanuck : MSG-3 is somewhat independent of the shift to on-condition maintenance (although that shift is definitely happening). MSG-3 basically tries to identi
27 tdscanuck : It wasn't a scheduled revenue flight so it doesn't have to be operated under whatever the CAA equivalent to FAA Part 121 is. There is no regulation f
28 N243NW : Not quite...they are currently done at AFW and will eventually move overseas. No one has said anything about China specifically yet. The 767s are als
29 jetmech : Is this the facility GE purchased as part of the deal for BA to selected GE's for their first batch of 777's? I'm glad to see the documentary held yo
30 Starlionblue : I was very impressed with this docu, but one thing really astounded me. THEY EXPLAINED LIFT CORRECTLY!!! You can tell they are engineers because right
31 tdscanuck : It's a joint effort. MSG-3 programs are put together by the OEMs and airlines working together. The OEM's need to make sure the intervals are all cor
32 Post contains links imiakhtar : Yes. This press release only mentions the CFM56 and RB211-524. Is GE contracted for MRO of the V2500 and Trent 800 too? EVENDALE, Ohio - British Airw
33 Post contains images saafnav : I see it as light: It's a wave, it's a particle. Use whichever gives the correct answer for your situation! When we did basic aerodynamics relating t
34 tdscanuck : There's nothing wrong with Bernoulli, even related to inverted flight. The problem is the explanation of *why* the air speeds up. It's the (totally w
35 Post contains images Starlionblue : The expression I stole for this is that Bernouilli is "correct but incomplete" as an explanation of lift. Besides, starting with F=ma is a much simpl
36 Post contains images saafnav : Ah cheap shot! Had to make it interesting!
37 HAWK21M : Similiar to a debate we had at work the other day.....went on inconclusive.....
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