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B-1 Flight Vs C-1 Flight  
User currently offlinerw774477 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1069 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

Why the different designations ?

is b-1 first flight -what about delivery flights ?

rw774477

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3946 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7311 times:

B = Boeing. C = Customer. Delivery would be a 'C' flight obviously.   

User currently offlinecargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1259 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7108 times:

B1 is the first flight.

C1 is the first customer acceptance flight.

Delivery flights are operated by the airline after they have taken possession of the aircraft - almost always under a special flight number for the ferry flight. For example ANA9397 is a number used commonly on the delivery flight of ANA wide bodies. Technically it isn't a "delivery" so much as the customer coming to collect the aircraft and fly it to their base of operations with their own crew.

It's a little more confusing for BBJ's and military aircraft as those don't go through the same process, but this is how it goes for Airlines.


User currently offlineaircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1709 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7041 times:

Who pays for the fuel on a C flight?

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9489 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6957 times:

Quoting aircellist (Reply 3):
Who pays for the fuel on a C flight?

Boeing. The C-1 flights are still operating under Boeing's Production Certificate and not the airlines' operating certificate. The flight is conducted according to Boeing rules, with Boeing pilots on board in addition to pilots (sometimes) from the airline. Some airlines designate Boeing to conduct the C-1 flight without them.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3946 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

Quoting cargolex (Reply 2):
Delivery flights are operated by the airline after they have taken possession of the aircraft

Not necessarily. Some airlines use an aircraft delivery contractor to get the plane home. Up until a few years ago all the HNA Group aircraft were ferried to China by Global Aircraft Delivery at Seattle. I think HNA use their own crews now, though.


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6482 times:

What means "EWA" flight, read it somestimes on Matt Cawby's blog. It that kind of "troubleshooting" during flight? Thanks for clarification.

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 1):
Delivery would be a 'C' flight obviously.

Generally not. Delivery flights take place after delivery...so they're not Boeing flights anymore.

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 6):
What means "EWA" flight, read it somestimes on Matt Cawby's blog.

It means they're doing a flight test beyond the production checkout. They come up really commonly whenever a new cabin configuration or IFE upgrade comes out.

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 6):
It that kind of "troubleshooting" during flight?

No. Troubleshooting a problem with a specific airplane falls within the B-x and C-x flights (that's what they're for). An EWA flight is a pre-planned flight test for some purpose beyond the production flights and squawk resolution.

Tom.


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3946 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days ago) and read 6311 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
Generally not. Delivery flights take place after delivery...so they're not Boeing flights anymore.

Umm, isn't that what I said...


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30551 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6218 times:
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A customer delivery flight would be operating under the airline's Operating Certificate, not Boeing's, correct? So per Roseflyer, it would not be a "C" flight.

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6056 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 8):
Umm, isn't that what I said...

You said delivery was a C flight:

Quoting RobK (Reply 1):
Delivery would be a 'C' flight obviously

A C-x flight is operated by Boeing under Boeing procedures before delivery. A delivery flight is not counted as a C-x flight.

Tom.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9489 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
A customer delivery flight would be operating under the airline's Operating Certificate, not Boeing's, correct? So per Roseflyer, it would not be a "C" flight.

Yes Stitch you are correct. Delivery flight is not under the Boeing Production Certificate. In general, Boeing can't fly an airplane after the ticket has been transferred from Production to Operating without temporary registration.

C flights are Boeing flights under the production certificate. The production certificate allows customer airline pilots to fly the airplane. The term customer flight is a bit of a misnomer. The airline's operating certificate typically does not allow Boeing pilots to be in command of the plane without special approval. Tom can probably correct me.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5787 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 11):
The airline's operating certificate typically does not allow Boeing pilots to be in command of the plane without special approval. Tom can probably correct me.

Nothing to correct...I'm not aware of any ops spec that would allow a Boeing pilot to be PIC when operating under the airline's operating certificate.

That said, being the PIC of record and being the functional pilot in command aren't really the same thing...there is nothing to stop an airline putting up a flight under their Ops Spec with an OEM pilot actually doing the flying. This is pretty normal for post-delivery flight testing.

Tom.


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