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Delta Indicates IT Will Insource Engine Overhauls  
User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1013 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7923 times:
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Does anyone have any idea what aircraft engines Delta currently overhauls and where they are done? Delta operates Pratt and Whitney P2000, Boeing 757, and P4000 engines, Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A330. It also has the CFM-56 engines which power their 737s and Airbus A319 and A320 aircraft. Then there are the 767, 777, and now the MD-90 aircraft. Of course the MD-80s and DC-9-50s have the JT8D series engines. Does Delta do overhaul maintenance on other airline' engines whether or not it is an engine that Delta operates?
Delta still has an engine shop at MSP, along with, I assume an engine shop in ATL.
Also, does Delta outsource any of it's engines for overhaul?  old 

[Edited 2012-08-23 17:37:40]

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7902 times:

Last I thought they were already doing so, I have seen a lot of parts for other carriers, I remember SY signed some deal a few years ago.

There is a very large engine shop in ATL, not sure how big the MSP one is.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was initially excited to see the the terms "Delta," "IT," and "Overhaul" in the same thread title!

It's still nice to see DL doing significant engine work in-house, though.


User currently offlineB757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 381 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7861 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Thread starter):
Does Delta do overhaul maintenance on other airline' engines whether or not it is an engine that Delta operates?


Delta does lots of in-sourced engine work, but only on engines types they operate. I have not seen any numbers this year, but in 2010, approximately 40% of engines coming out of the shops were customer engines.
The engines overhauled in-house are:
PW JT8D-219
CFM 56-5 and -7
PW2000
PW4000
GE CF6-80A
GE CF6-80C3 B6F
GE CF-34 as used on the RJ.

The engines that are sent out are the Trent, GE90, V2500 and the GE CF6-80C3 B8F (767-400 engine). I honestly don't know where the PW JT8s are done for the remaining DC9 aircraft.

[Edited 2012-08-23 17:55:54]

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7824 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Thread starter):
Does Delta do overhaul maintenance on other airline' engines whether or not it is an engine that Delta operates?

I thought AA was the one that does this..... Correct me if I am wrong.....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9088 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7823 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Thread starter):

errr....
Delta does its PW4000/2000, CF6, CFM56-3/5/7, CF34 and 219s. (JT8s)

Delta sends out the GE90, V2500, T800(to American) and will be sending the BMW engine out. (717)

For the NWA fleet i have no idea what is/isn't done. Not sure if they have started doing there 2037s, 4000s, or JT8s.

Note the CF34 is the RJ engine. Its nothing but 3rd party work. IIRC its the only CF34 shop in the US.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Thread starter):
Delta still has an engine shop at MSP, along with, I assume an engine shop in ATL.
ATL has the engine shop and 5 test cells. (1 for APUs only)
MSP has 2 test cells(I think) and a smaller engine shop.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Thread starter):
Does Delta do overhaul maintenance on other airline' engines whether or not it is an engine that Delta operates?

Yes. Its TechOps biggest money maker. Off the top of my head I can think of, HA, Atlas, GOL, AS, UPS, FX, AM and others.

[Edited 2012-08-23 17:54:39]


yep.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7551 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Yes. Its TechOps biggest money maker. Off the top of my head I can think of, HA, Atlas, GOL, AS, UPS, FX, AM and others.



In addition to the U.S. Navy's C-40s and some other foreign carriers.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7547 times:

They did a lot of work for World airways....


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineairbuske From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7460 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Its TechOps biggest money maker

Only in the eye of the public.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Not sure if they have started doing there 2037s, 4000s, or JT8s

PW4056/4168 was brought back in house. Delta was trying to in source the PMNW PW2037 engines but I believe there were some contractual issues with PW that needed to be overcome first. Don't know where this stands now. I can't remember about the JT8Ds.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9088 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7168 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6):

you know, I don't know if they do the engine overhauls(CFM56-7s) or not. I know they do air frame stuff.

Quoting airbuske (Reply 8):
Only in the eye of the public.

err huh? Engine is what is bringing in the money. Sadly the Airframe side has lost more contract work lately then what has been brought in.

Quoting FI642 (Reply 7):

They did but lost it to PIMCO I believe(aren't both companies in BK?) also lost North American.

Quoting B757forever (Reply 3):
GE CF6-80C3 B8F

Really? How much difference is their between the B6F and B8F?

I just can't see what the difference would be that it can't be done in house.



yep.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7142 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
you know, I don't know if they do the engine overhauls(CFM56-7s) or not. I know they do air frame stuff.

That was going to be my question. I know they did A stuff for them including some form of their PSVs? Not sure if that included the powerplants. Maybe the military sends all their engines to the OEM.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
IIRC its the only CF34 shop in the US.

So, DL TechOPS is the only MRO in the US that works on the these? Everyone sends them to either DL or outside the US? That's pretty cool..



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7066 times:

Quoting B757forever (Reply 3):
Delta does lots of in-sourced engine work, but only on engines types they operate.

Well that makes sense  
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10):
So, DL TechOPS is the only MRO in the US that works on the these? Everyone sends them to either DL or outside the US? That's pretty cool..

And is almost certainly not true. There's no way that DL is the only maintainer of an American engine flown by the thousands in the US.

I can't prove it either way. But I'd like to see proof that its the case.

NS


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5111 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7054 times:

Quoting B757forever (Reply 3):
The engines overhauled in-house are:
Quoting B757forever (Reply 3):
GE CF6-80C3 B6F
Quoting B757forever (Reply 3):
The engines that are sent out are the
Quoting B757forever (Reply 3):
GE CF6-80C3 B8F

Why would that be? Those engines can't be very different. Is it a contractual thing?



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7022 times:

They're practically identical, so I am also confused.


NS


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9088 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6968 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10):
Maybe the military sends all their engines to the OEM.

Or some other MRO or does them in house.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10):

So, DL TechOPS is the only MRO in the US that works on the these? Everyone sends them to either DL or outside the US? That's pretty cool..

for a completely out of fleet engine too. From what I remember they pretty much do all the big RJ operators OHs.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):

I can't prove it either way. But I'd like to see proof that its the case.

I'll have to work on that one. (and i did say IIRC. so i may be wrong....)

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):
There's no way that DL is the only maintainer of an American engine flown by the thousands in the US.

.....not counting the OEM FWIW.

Ok a little bit of googling has brought me to this, http://www.mymroservices.com/mro_services_products/engines_cf34
It lists Delta TechOps and StandardAero as the only two in the US that does OHs on CF34 engines. (again not counting GE) ( Dallas Airmotive says in the remarks that they do OHs but going to there web site it doesn't list any certs for the CF34.)
Looking at SrandardAero web page it says they do the CF34 work in Winnipeg. So if that is true then so far it look like its just TechOps as the MRO. I will keep digging though.


and just for the record I can think of a few engines that don't(that I know of) have a MRO in the US. GE90 and V2500s both come to mind.(and yes I know they aren't as popular as the CF34....just pointing that out)

[Edited 2012-08-24 01:37:33]


yep.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9088 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):

I forgot to add.
AA has a joint company with Rolls. TAESL

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...AFQjCNEgzO7RMvmW476DG58JdDyL8Ot_PQ

They do RB211-535s and RR Trent 800s.

They happen to do Delta's T800s. I believe they also do CO's RB211 overhauls.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):
Well that makes sense

even though being able to go out to the Test cell and see something like a Trent 700(does anyone have any in the US?) or maybe something real odd like a Russian engine would be pretty cool.......burn money....but cool to see.



yep.
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6851 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 12):
Why would that be? Those engines can't be very different. Is it a contractual thing?

The B8F engine is not just a data plug/software change from the B6F. DL sends them to Evergreen in Taiwan, I'm sure it was not worth the investment for a small subfleet of approx. 45 engines. It also looks like there is a contractural agreement as well.

http://atwonline.com/operations-main...llion-deals-pratt-mesa-others-0309

http://www.geaviation.com/press/cf6/cf6_20000724.html

[Edited 2012-08-24 03:46:21]


This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineMaddogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6783 times:

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 16):
The B8F engine is not just a data plug/software change from the B6F. DL sends them to Evergreen in Taiwan, I'm sure it was not worth the investment for a small subfleet of approx. 45 engines. It also looks like there is a contractural agreement as well.

Very interesting, I always thought the B6F and B8F were just a plug change and were very similar, thanks for bringing this to light.

How about overhauls for the B6 vs. the B6F? I'm referring to those CF6's on the ex-GF 767's which I think are non-FADEC. Surely that must be a small subfleet of engines as well.

I'd also be very curious to see where the JT8's on the DC-9's are done.


User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6691 times:

The JT8's were done in the old ATL Northwest Hangar, also MSP used to work on them, so I think if I remember correctly that work just all shifted up to MSP, but that was with NWA so Delta could have totally done something different.


The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6564 times:

Quoting MaddogJT8D (Reply 17):
How about overhauls for the B6 vs. the B6F? I'm referring to those CF6's on the ex-GF 767's which I think are non-FADEC. Surely that must be a small subfleet of engines as well.

I think the B6 is done in house. The main difference between the two is the mechanical connection from throttle to engine. I do know that there is a spare B6 engine for just those six airplanes.

Quoting MaddogJT8D (Reply 17):
I'd also be very curious to see where the JT8's on the DC-9's are done.

I think that they are done in South America or AeroThrust in Florida.

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 18):
that work just all shifted up to MSP, but that was with NWA so Delta could have totally done something different.

I don't know if any engine shops are left at MSP.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

Is Building C in MSP engine shop still in use or has it been shuttered since the merger?


The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently onlinen901wa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

I was just up in MSPs eng shop. ( not sure what the building number is, but I think it was C ) They are still running. They were doing build up on the V2500s that were arriving from overhaul, and Not sure what P/W 2000 work is done there, but they had one in the Test cell, when I was there.

Deltal1011man, Im with you. I just got back from RR school in Derby, and they had a Trent 800 in the Cell , and I would have loved to see that run. They also had a RB-211-524 off a 1011, but not in Running shape.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6328 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 14):
Ok a little bit of googling has brought me to this, http://www.mymroservices.com/mro_services_products/engines_cf34
It lists Delta TechOps and StandardAero as the only two in the US that does OHs on CF34 engines. (again not counting GE) ( Dallas Airmotive says in the remarks that they do OHs but going to there web site it doesn't list any certs for the CF34.)
Looking at SrandardAero web page it says they do the CF34 work in Winnipeg. So if that is true then so far it look like its just TechOps as the MRO. I will keep digging though.

Thanks for that..that is pretty interesting. I remember back in high school I was in a science club and we took a field trip to Tech OPS and we went through the engine shop. They were running up a 757 engine in that huge engine bay. You could feel the steel doors vibrating the entire time and a slight his sound creeping through the cracks in the door seals. They also had some RJ engines on stands outside the bay being worked on.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1013 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6299 times:
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Quoting n901wa (Reply 21):

I was just up in MSPs eng shop. ( not sure what the building number is, but I think it was C ) They are still running. They were doing build up on the V2500s that were arriving from overhaul, and Not sure what P/W 2000 work is done there, but they had one in the Test cell, when I was there.

When I worked at Northwest after the merger with Republic, I think the Republic engines were sent over to what became Building B where Northwest had a much larger engine shop. Delta has since torn down all the old Northwest hangers except for Hangers 6 and 7. Everything else that was north of the engine shop, including the stock room and what was called the "GO" or general offices has been gone for several years.
I am curious as to how much of what is left of the engine shop, welding shop and machine shop which have not be torn down is actually used. Building B, or what is left of it is immediately west of the rood leading into the Airport's Main Terminal. I have been hearing rumours that Delta is thinking about tearing down the old Northwest Hangers 6 and 7.
Hanger 7 was used for 747 heavy checks, while Hanger 6 was used for overnight checks and other maintenance on 747s and DC-10s, along with anything else that would fit in it.
The hangers and "GO" that were torn down was done to supposedly expand what was called the Gold Concourse. I do not know what they call it now. I personally think there was more to the reason given as to why these buildings were torn down.   


User currently offlinePresRDC From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5616 times:

Pratt would love every airline to do its own wrench turning, but to contract with it on an exclusive basis for the supply of new spare parts, used serviceable spare parts and part repairs.

Wrench turining is low margin work that only makes sense as a way to capture the lucrative parts and repair work.


25 Deltal1011man : I don't think they do any overhauls. I do know that....for now....they plan on keep what engine assets they have left in MSP. The test cell may come
26 HermansCVR580 : Maybe I'm reading to much into that post, but me thinks Delta has some plans for MSP?
27 LHCVG : Are we just confusing between profitability and revenue? I ask because it seems reasonable that engines may well be higher marginal profit per unit,
28 B757forever : From what I have heard, the MSP shop has been set up to work the V2500 build ups (QEC) and the PW2000 light repair engines. That way these lighter sc
29 burnsie28 : I think that was part of the original 2020 plan laid out by NW and MAC. It was, if you look at the plans that NW and MAC came up with for the 2020 pl
30 CRJ900 : There must be 1500+ CRJ and E-jets in the US alone, so 3000 CF34 engines must mean a lot of work and $$$ for Delta TechOps...?
31 Dalmd88 : The engine side brings in way more money than the airframe work. It has for years. We insource a lot of motors and the profit margin on the airframe
32 Post contains links A342 : IIRC at least one important regional carrier in the USA and several in Latin America have a CF34 maintenance contract with MTU, so not everything sta
33 Deltal1011man : You are. Test cells are hard to come by. Delta isn't going to dump a test cell. In theory MSP could have 1 or 2 engine overhaul lines. So if the MRO
34 Post contains images n901wa : Howzit Deltal1011man. Hope your doing well too. Yea lots of RR work out west. Hawaiians A330 Had to do road trip Boros for them. Did you hear 2 Wester
35 Post contains images Deltal1011man : I'm alive and well. Better now that football is about to start back. sweet. Brand new Trent 700s.....lucky. Are yall doing any long checks on the HA
36 Post contains images n901wa : Howzit Deltal1011man. MSP is doing the larger Checks. The Trent 700 are nice to Boro and inspect, still new But we have had to change 3 engs already o
37 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Thought so. Ah well, maybe one delta Delta will go back to doing some big work in LA. I'd love nothing more than for them to take over the low-bay an
38 HermansCVR580 : How much room does MSP have? I know a bunch of Northwest hangars are gone, I thought that all that was left was the old Republic hangars and the addit
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