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Long-haul Biz Jets  
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3965 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 12 months ago) and read 4642 times:
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Not including private derivatives of Airbus and Boeing aircraft, which business jet in service (so not the G650) has the longest range?


I've got $h*t to do
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

The Global Express XRS (which has now been renamed the Global 6000), which has a range of 6200nm. The G550, the other competitor, has a range of 5800nm.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinewingscrubber From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4172 times:

The Falcon 7X is up there too.

Here's a good article on long-range bizjets:

Resident TechOps Troll
User currently offlinewingscrubber From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4159 times:

Drat. Link not showing up and cannot edit previous post. Here's the table from the article I was trying to link:



Resident TechOps Troll
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3965 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3920 times:
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Thanks guys. And thank you again, and again, and once more. Is this long enough?


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineliedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3851 times:

The Gulfstream G650 will have a range of 7000 nm at Mach 0.85, and 5000 nm at Mach 0.90.


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15727 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3846 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 4):
Is this long enough?

I think that as you get much further than the G650 the planes will have to get bigger. And not just bigger in the "bigger planes fly farther" engineering sense. In order to be usable for missions approaching 16-18 hours people are going to need more cabin space and amenities. Things like actual beds as opposed to divans and onboard showers are going to become necessary along with more space to make such flights practical. Plus the potential for additional crew, space for more provisions, etc. It can be done, but it's just a matter of how much it would cost and how many people are willing to pay for it.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
I think that as you get much further than the G650 the planes will have to get bigger. And not just bigger in the "bigger planes fly farther" engineering sense

Well if you look at the price tags on the aircraft Wingscrubber posted, it starts making sense or cents why a used but nice 757 starts looking much more economical.
You would probably leave the gold plated equipment that Trump installed behind but cost wise that would make a used 57 with about a million or so for interior furnishings, beds and showers look viable.



Okie


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15727 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
Well if you look at the price tags on the aircraft Wingscrubber posted, it starts making sense or cents why a used but nice 757 starts looking much more economical.

Yes and no. It's cheaper to buy, really most used airliners would be. But it will cost more to operate and does not have the same performance as a Gulfstream or Global Express. Maintenance for older airframes is probably going to be an issue as well.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

A Boeing or Airbus product can't operate to/from KTEB which is a deal breaker for most....

User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8465 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Off topic, I rode in a GV just once, through a friend, on some touch & goes -- what an incredible experience...

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
In order to be usable for missions approaching 16-18 hours people are going to need more cabin space and amenities.

I don't think folks who haven't spent several hours on a biz-jet realize how confining and limiting the cabins are for really long flights.

Remember these cabins are not bigger than a CRJ. If you are making a 6 to 8 hour trip with three pilots, an FA and two primaries - that is okay.

If you are making a 12-14 hour trip with three pilots, an FA and five primaries - the airplane is crowded and not terribly easy to move around, to get up and stretch, etc.

The company I used to work for bought a G-550 partially for the justification that they could fly from the midwest to Shanghai. After a couple non-stop trips, they have now standardized on a tech stop at Anchorage. Just a 30-45 minute stop, but enough time to stretch their legs and work out the kinks.

It also makes customs easier when returning.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15727 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 9):
A Boeing or Airbus product can't operate to/from KTEB which is a deal breaker for most....

I'm not sure it's as big a deal breaker for as many people as you'd think. TEB is not the only airport for the New York area and there are significant numbers of BBJs and other airliner based designs in corporate use. Not as many as Gulfstreams or Global Expresses, but still significant.

The TEB issue is further trivialized by the rise of charter and fractional operations. If you really, really must fly to TEB then you just book a smaller plane. For other trips, use something bigger and more comfortable.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
I don't think folks who haven't spent several hours on a biz-jet realize how confining and limiting the cabins are for really long flights.

You can fit the thing out however you like, but eventually it's still hours in a smallish space. I do wonder how a larger business jet might do in the marketplace. Use new engines, give it more range than the G650, and make it larger. Say split the difference between a G650 and BBJ in terms of cabin space.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3250 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
I'm not sure it's as big a deal breaker for as many people as you'd think. TEB is not the only airport for the New York area and there are significant numbers of BBJs and other airliner based designs in corporate use. Not as many as Gulfstreams or Global Expresses, but still significant.

The TEB issue is further trivialized by the rise of charter and fractional operations. If you really, really must fly to TEB then you just book a smaller plane. For other trips, use something bigger and more comfortable.

Correct, those interested in this level of plane are not going to pass simply because of TEB. They will gladly take the extra few miles to depart from EWR.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
You can fit the thing out however you like, but eventually it's still hours in a smallish space. I do wonder how a larger business jet might do in the marketplace. Use new engines, give it more range than the G650, and make it larger. Say split the difference between a G650 and BBJ in terms of cabin space.

Which is the market the Global 7000/8000 is after


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15727 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3239 times:

Quoting corey07850 (Reply 13):
Which is the market the Global 7000/8000 is after

In terms of range, yes. In terms of size, the cabin of the Global 7000/8000 will be virtually identical to the G650. Now, that's a comfortable plane for sure, but do you really want to fly 16+ hours without an actual bed or stateroom? Or a shower, at the beginning or end of a day of doing business?

What Bombardier is doing is building a business jet that has a marginally higher weight but virtually the same size as current offerings and using the new technology to give customers more range and lower fuel burn with the new Passport engines. I wonder what the market for a plane that uses new engines to get more range out of a larger plane with approximately the same fuel burn as current planes would look like.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2359 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):

Yesterday I've seen a business plane that can do 7500 nm nonstop.


Wait, it was VP-CCC...

...sitting at BSL with engines covered, and the door areas covered with what looked like broad speed tape sheets.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
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