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Questions About A380 Landings.  
User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16278 times:

I flew on A380 more than 10 times, and not even once I experienced a smooth landing.
All 10 flights were very hard landings!!!
It got me to a point that I don't look forward to enjoy flying on A380.

My questions are the following:

- Anyone experienced a smooth landing on A380 ??
- Doesn't the frequent hard landings cause a frame and metal fatigue which will shorten the life of the aircraft??
- I understand that it is a giant aircraft but is it possible to land it smoothly or it is designed for the hard landings only??

Regards,

[Edited 2012-09-01 17:09:16]


707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30986 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16238 times:
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Were they all on the same airline?

My A380 experience has been with SQ and they seem to be able to put her down without knocking luggage out of the bins.  


User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16210 times:

I guess we have not had a 380 bash for about a week, so one was due.

Sometimes hard landings are carried out due to conditions, but I find it hard to believe you would not look forward to flying on a 380 because of a bad landing or two.

Quoting KU747 (Thread starter):
My questions are the following:

- Anyone experienced a smooth landing on A380 ??
- Doesn't the frequent hard landings cause a frame and metal fatigue which will shorten the life of the aircraft??
- I understand that it is a giant aircraft but is it possible to land it smoothly or it is designed for the hard landings only ??

- SQ and EK have been great flights with great landings for me, many times now.
- I would think that your hard landings must have led to the airframe being taken out of service and inspected if you question frame/metal fatigue!!!
- I do not believe that you are asking this question. All aircraft are the same, they flare and land at similar rates, except when conditions dictate a firmer hit with the tarmac.

This is a strange topic!


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4737 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16134 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Were they all on the same airline?

Good question.  
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
My A380 experience has been with SQ and they seem to be able to put her down without knocking luggage out of the bins.

I only flew the A380 4 times. Three landings were extremely smooth, one was a normal landing. Overall a very good score imho.  


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16132 times:

My A380 landings, with LH and SQ, have been totally normal.


AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16116 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Were they all on the same airline?

All on EK DXB-LHR-DXB

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
- SQ and EK have been great flights with great landings for me, many times now.
- I would think that your hard landings must have led to the airframe being taken out of service and inspected if you question frame/metal fatigue!!!
- I do not believe that you are asking this question. All aircraft are the same, they flare and land at similar rates, except when conditions dictate a firmer hit with the tarmac.

I'm telling you 10 flights with 10 very hard landings with a big bang, at LHR and DXB, and most of the time the weather was nice.
I totally understand landing procedure and the flaring but it is very strange for me not to experience a smooth landing an A380 with 10 flights???

Quoting col (Reply 2):
- I would think that your hard landings must have led to the airframe being taken out of service and inspected if you question frame/metal fatigue!!!

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying that if the A380 always lands very hard, it will eventually leads to frame and body fatigue.



707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16104 times:

same - I have had 6 A380 landings. My description would not be so much "HARD" as "FIRM". It does not land like a 747.

User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16098 times:

I guess all my 10 flights on A380 are flown by junior pilots!!!


707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlineulfinator From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16065 times:

I can't find the thread now but there was a discussion about a hard landing that damaged a plane (767 I think) and part of it was about how the main gear articulates. The gist of the discussion was that the main gear angles forward on the 767 and A380 and backwards on other aircraft and people thought that it might be harder to get a smooth landing with that configuration.

User currently offlinemichaeljp From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 16024 times:

Quoting ulfinator (Reply 8):
I can't find the thread now but there was a discussion about a hard landing that damaged a plane (767 I think) and part of it was about how the main gear articulates

I believe your talking about the ANA B767 that landed back into Japan (Osaka) IIRC which due the the landing buckled the fuselage.
I'm not sure exactly what happened to the a/c afterwards.

If it was a Boeing I'd say that its a textbook landing as Boeing "recommends" a FIRM landing. Usually it also depends where your sat, if you are sat right above the bogey's for example your impression of the landing will differ to someone who sits on the upper deck at the front of the a/c or at the back.
Unless you or I were flying the plane its purely speculation, however....wind plays a part in it. It may be a nice day but their may be a crosswind, there although rare may be tailwind (this is unlikely though!).
Although I cannot speak from a crew POV with the A380 I have always tended to find the cushioning on the Airbus's to be somewhat less that smooth in general down the general gear structure.

All the best  


User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15963 times:

Quoting michaeljp (Reply 9):
Usually it also depends where your sat, if you are sat right above the bogey's for example your impression of the landing will differ to someone who sits on the upper deck at the front of the a/c or at the back.

I was on the upper deck in the front. I also felt the rebound, sort of a bounce but not a complete bounce!!



707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlinektachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15948 times:

ANA B767 that landed back into Japan (Osaka) IIRC which due the the landing buckled the fuselage

I think you meant to say NRT?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15904 times:

Quoting KU747 (Thread starter):
Doesn't the frequent hard landings cause a frame and metal fatigue which will shorten the life of the aircraft??

Not really. "Hard landing" in the context you're talking about is "normal landing" the realm of fatigue analysis. "Hard landing" by the maintenance definition does require inspection but that's far more for static damage than fatigue damage.

Quoting KU747 (Reply 5):
What I'm saying that if the A380 always lands very hard, it will eventually leads to frame and body fatigue.

All aircraft experience frame and body fatigue, all the time. In the scheme of the complete array of loads they're subjected to, landing isn't a particularly big problem for fatigue (it can be a big problem for static loading). Infrequent overloads can actually improve fatigue life (a process called autofrettage).

Tom.


User currently offlineyvphx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15894 times:

Could this be possible because the A380 is still a relatively new aircraft, with only a comparable handful of pilots flying on, that pilots are still getting used to it?

I understand many of the pilots transitioned from the A340, I think? Perhaps the OP has experienced cross-winds which dictate a firmer landing than othertimes.

I havn't been on an A380 yet (darn) but regardless of what kind of landing I would get when I fly on one, any landing you walk away fom is a good landing!


User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15858 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 12):

Thanks for the clarification. I read an article a while back about Southwest Airlines aircrafts can get frame and body fatigue sooner that other US carriers due to the frequent landings per day.



707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15819 times:

Quoting KU747 (Reply 14):
Thanks for the clarification. I read an article a while back about Southwest Airlines aircrafts can get frame and body fatigue sooner that other US carriers due to the frequent landings per day.

That is cycles per day, with being pressurized. Landings are OK. Holes in roof and cracks found because of the cycles they do.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15739 times:

Quoting col (Reply 15):
That is cycles per day, with being pressurized. Landings are OK. Holes in roof and cracks found because of the cycles they do.

I'd assume that more frequent inspections and MX would still occur if you did high numbers of takeoffs and landings without pressuraztion cycles. Not likely to be a concern on a typical airliner, but we all know somewhere out there is the exception that proves the rule.


User currently offlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15669 times:

Quoting michaeljp (Reply 9):
If it was a Boeing I'd say that its a textbook landing as Boeing "recommends" a FIRM landing. Usually it also depends where your sat, if you are sat right above the bogey's for example your impression of the landing will differ to someone who sits on the upper deck at the front of the a/c or at the back.

I think for the A380 it depends a lot where you sit. I had one flight where I sat on the upper deck and a colleague sat on the lower deck. I experienced a smooth landing while my colleague complained about a very hard and uncomfortable landing.

The only time I experienced a "firm" landing on the A380 was when I was seated on the lower deck straight above the main landing gear. The sound of extending and retracting was also quite loud.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15599 times:

Quoting yvphx (Reply 13):

Could this be possible because the A380 is still a relatively new aircraft, with only a comparable handful of pilots flying on, that pilots are still getting used to it?

That shouldn't be the case; any pilot that's flying paying passengers has already been thoroughly trained and evaluated, including a lot of simulator time. And, unless the A380 is the one exception, landing in the sim is almost universally harder than landing in the real world because the visual and tactile cues (though good) aren't perfect.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 16):
I'd assume that more frequent inspections and MX would still occur if you did high numbers of takeoffs and landings without pressuraztion cycles.

A cycle for maintenance purposes is a takeoff+landing. It doesn't matter if you pressurize or not, so it will not drive more frequent inspections. However, if you're not pressurizing then you'd expect to find less issues at the scheduled inspections.

Tom.


User currently offlinegr09 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2008, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15470 times:

Quoting KU747 (Thread starter):
Anyone experienced a smooth landing on A380 ??

I flew on A380 four times (2xLH, 2xSQ) and all landings were perfectly smooth.


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3068 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15348 times:

I've flown the A380 3 times (2x SQ, 1x QF). I have had two really smooth landings, and one hard, but the hard one was it bad weather, so expected (although it wasn't very hard).

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2049 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15313 times:

Quoting KU747 (Reply 7):

I guess all my 10 flights on A380 are flown by junior pilots!!!

It usually all boils down to the pilots. I have flown on the rare Colgan Q400 flights where the landing couldnt even wake a sleeping baby, then I've been on one a couple weeks ago when I was actually in a little bit of fear for my life. Granted, most regional airlines have younger, less experienced pilots so it's understandable.

Every time I fly Colgan with my dad, he always jokes that the pilots must have been ex-Navy pilots. 



Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlineCaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14300 times:

Quoting KU747 (Reply 10):
I was on the upper deck in the front.
Quoting AngMoh (Reply 17):
I think for the A380 it depends a lot where you sit.



Agreed. Though I'm not sure which thought process to follow. Is it:

a) The further you are from the landing gear/point of impact, the smoother your perceived touchdown will be because the fuselage dissipates the energy from the touchdown

OR

b) The further you are from the landing gear, the rougher the landing will seem due to flex in the fuselage and the moment/arm from the 'fulcrum' or MLG?



Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlinemy235 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14298 times:

Quoting ulfinator (Reply 8):
I can't find the thread now but there was a discussion about a hard landing that damaged a plane (767 I think) and part of it was about how the main gear articulates. The gist of the discussion was that the main gear angles forward on the 767 and A380 and backwards on other aircraft and people thought that it might be harder to get a smooth landing with that configuration.
Effect Of Bogie Tilt On Landing (by WingedMigrator Aug 25 2012 in Tech Ops)

And yes I truly believe aircraft with back tilting bogies are *much* smoother on touch down. http://youtu.be/lowrM-780tg A330/340, 747, 757, 777, The 747 and A330/340 have the most tilt in the MLG.


User currently offlinelhrnue From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14164 times:

Quoting KU747 (Reply 5):
I'm telling you 10 flights with 10 very hard landings with a big bang, at LHR and DXB, and most of the time the weather was nice.
I totally understand landing procedure and the flaring but it is very strange for me not to experience a smooth landing an A380 with 10 flights???

I had normal landings with the A380 in Sydney and Auckland. The landing in DXB was a hard one, but it was during a sand storm, so nothing to do with the aircraft.

I maybe want to ask the question about LHR little bit different. I am a frequent flyer into LHR with different airlines ... and my FEELING is that the average landing into Heathrow is harder than elsewhere. My theory is, that pilots (I am not one) are under some time pressure at LHR (the next aircraft is sitting right in their neck) and nobody wants to loose the slot and go around. I am not saying anything is outside of normal procedures or not safe, just the pressure to get the aircraft down is higher. ... now you can shot me.


25 Max Q : Well I think it has a lot to do with the forward tilt on the main landing gear, whether it's a 767 or an A380 it is just an unforgiving design. When y
26 strangr : I guess almost all flights in an A380 would be by junior pilots. After all the 747 has been around for 20+ years and the a380 has been around for wha
27 Post contains images Starlionblue : 10 landings is not a big enough sample. The airlines you've flown with have already performed thousands of landings with the aircraft. How can you kn
28 Post contains images mandala499 : But the quality of the passenger can be deduced from their reaction to the landing impact acceleration.
29 BA777 : Just because you had firm landings does not mean they were flown by junior pilots! Captains also make firm landings.
30 bond007 : Making a good, safe landing comes down to pilot training and experience ...almost all landings, for all airlines, for all aircraft types, are good la
31 Post contains images CamiloA380 : I would rate my A380 landing in SIN, smooth- , so firm it was (and we aborted the first approach due to some unexpected showers, and came in for a se
32 tdscanuck : 2.5g would certainly warrant an inspection. 2.5g is the in-air limit load. Landing sink rate inspection triggers usually come off sink rate...anythin
33 Post contains images bueb0g : To be fair, the Q400 is a bitch to land 'nicely' This isn't relevant... inexperienced on type =/= junior... Most A380 flight crew are at the more exp
34 Daleaholic : Let's be frank here... You're putting roughly three hundred and eighty six tons (MLW) onto a combined surface area (the tyres) about the size of a car
35 CPDC10-30 : Not a scientific observation in any way. But the firmest landing I've ever experienced was on a SQ A388 JFK-FRA. I was on the upper deck at the rear,
36 francoflier : And that's just at 1g. The vertical speed when touching down is still several feet per second. So the tires also absorb the energy needed to decelera
37 tdscanuck : The tires are just force-transmission devices; they absorb relatively little of the total energy for that. Most of it ends up in the strut (as heat a
38 chuchoteur : Same on airbus... positive contact required to achieve predictable/shortest landing distances. Back in the old days japanese pilots flying the A300 h
39 kazim786 : Ive flown on the A380 many times too. All in all i would say out of 13 flights- 3 were hard landings. And these were once with: Emirates- landing at E
40 Post contains images Starlionblue : 13 flights is not a very big sample. If you've landed 80-100 times you can start making good statistics. And then you'd have to do the same on a lot
41 Post contains images GlobalMoose : I'd take a firm touchdown in the landing zone over a soft touchdown outside the zone anyday. Without knowing too much about the TOLD considerations/as
42 m1m2 : I've only been on one A380 flight. That landing I thought was rough. I figured it was just the massive size of the gear and all of those tires spinnin
43 RussianJet : Been on the A380 just once - landing was fine. Not a greaser but not noticeably hard either.
44 David L : But countering that is a whole load of inertia on an aircraft with the mass of a 380. I wouldn't have thought the wheel spin-up issue would be much w
45 HAWK21M : Was the seat location the same.......or similiar each time....
46 gigneil : I would think that given the huge size of the airplane and the monsterously large for its size wings, ground effect would require you to fly into the
47 Starlionblue : It's a matter of proportion. A 767 or an MD-80 have much smaller wings, but on the other hand they weigh proportionately less. I think wing loading,
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