ogshelly From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5260 times:
I wonder why not midnight departures instead of 11:59PM, very soon those will be at11:59:59 PM. Examples are UA1046 IAH-CCS, or UA1009 IAH-BOG. With airliners pinching every penny, I doubt double per diem is allowed, if it is.....great! Flying one day and arriving a day later gives me an extra minute of jet lag. Anyone?
KaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12043 posts, RR: 42 Reply 1, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5251 times:
I think most crews are paid per hour away from base regardless, so the one minute won't mean anything.
jbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 509 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
I think it also has to do with the date.. a 12am departure adds confusion as to whether its the day before or day off. On booking engines it can be confusing because red eyes are typically the last flight of the day, not the first.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22241 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5149 times:
Also most airlines schedule in UTC time not local, so it does not matter what the local time is.
Timings like 23:59 are commercially driven for passenger convenience.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
bestwestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6509 posts, RR: 58 Reply 5, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5125 times:
Because passengers know that 23:59 on Wednesday is a flight on Wednesday evening.
It is well known that a midnight departure time is a real confusion for people - do they turn up on a Tuesday to fly at midnight or on a Wednesday to fly at midnight.
GoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2635 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5116 times:
This very issue helped me get home from Tel Aviv in business class.
It's good news for non-revs that know what day it is.
I agree a 100%, I missed my flight BOG-IAH at the time it was at 12:15 AM, so it really confused me, as the Bogota-Houston's departure used to be or continues so at 8 AM. I confess I am now very careful. It makes a lot of sense the 11:59 PM schedule, I see it clearly now. You guys are smart!
Who would confuse that with 0:15 in the morning? Or should "12:15" AM (for "quarter past noon") really be "12:15 PM", because the morning lasts from midnight to noon (which are exactly twelve hours, or half a day), so any minute past noon should be called PM...
In the 24-hour-format, a daytime like 24 hours and xx does not exist. So there shouldn't be a daytime like 12 hours and xx minutes in the 12-hour-format?
Well, change to our 24 hour format. Thank you. You've already learnt to use it in the armed forces.
I understand the other issue though:
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 5): Because passengers know that 23:59 on Wednesday is a flight on Wednesday evening.
David
Even a letdown, if it is thoroughly and final, is a step forward.
ZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1394 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4876 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 8): Who would confuse that with 0:15 in the morning? Or should "12:15" AM (for "quarter past noon") really be "12:15 PM", because the morning lasts from midnight to noon (which are exactly twelve hours, or half a day), so any minute past noon should be called PM...
12:15am *IS* 0:15 in the morning / quarter past midnight - you seem to have it the wrong way round.
Either way - I'm all for universal use of the 24 hour clock (much more commonly used here in the UK than the US already).
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 16 Reply 10, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4864 times:
I can't imagine someone booking a flight and not knowing when it departed.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1380 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4856 times:
Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 9): 12:15am *IS* 0:15 in the morning / quarter past midnight - you seem to have it the wrong way round.
I'll never book a flight to your country, ever again...
On the 24 hour clock, 24 hours isn't allowed. So, a 12 on the 12 hour clock shouldn't exist, too. 0.15 AM is unambiguous - it's 15 minutes after the day started, 15 minutes past "zero".
11:59 AM is one minute before noon. So, 12 AM is noon. Therefore, 12:15 is fifteen minutes after noon... argh.
Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 10): I can't imagine someone booking a flight and not knowing when it departed.
Various flight dispatches here can tell you otherwise. A flight leaving at 1:00 on December 22nd leaves 1 hour after the day (22nd of Dec) began. To many people, 1:00 still belongs to the old day and the concept of having to pass the "night" at an airport doesn't make sense to them.
David
Even a letdown, if it is thoroughly and final, is a step forward.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8787 posts, RR: 52 Reply 12, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4847 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 11): On the 24 hour clock, 24 hours isn't allowed. So, a 12 on the 12 hour clock shouldn't exist, too. 0.15 AM is unambiguous - it's 15 minutes after the day started, 15 minutes past "zero".
I think you are pointing out the problem. There is not an international standard definog a 12 or 24 hour clock that is widely used. What might make sense in Switzerland would confuse most Americans who have never seen 015 as a time and don't know te 24 hour clock and get confused. Most airlines in the US avoid 0000-0100 departures.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4785 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 11): Various flight dispatches here can tell you otherwise.
After 30 yrs at my present co. I can say the converting the UTC back to local has had me thinking twice more than once but never was a no show. To me the easiest one to screw up was say a 0345Z dept which is really 1045PM local the night before.
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 16 Reply 16, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4597 times:
Your humor did get a chuckle but sorry but it is written in regular am/pm time it takes very little "deciphering" to figure out and "know correctly".
ZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1394 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4529 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 11): I'll never book a flight to your country, ever again... Wow!
I live in the UK and we use the 24 hour clock - I think you've misinterpreted my response. Regardless moving everyone to a 24-hour clock makes far more sense.
copter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 780 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4423 times:
Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 16): Your humor did get a chuckle but sorry but it is written in regular am/pm time it takes very little "deciphering" to figure out and "know correctly".
But using the 24-hour clock takes even less deciphering!
The incorrect use of AM/PM is common in some areas. If it has to do with store hours, a little common sense will figure it out. Much less clear in airline schedules though.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1380 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4186 times:
Railway timetables sometimes have 24:00 if the last minute of the old day is meant (especially for arrivals), and 0:00 if the first minute of the new day is meant (especially for departures).
But strictly speaking, 24:00 does not exist, because 0:00 already does.
Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 19): I would assume if I booked a flight on October 2nd @ 00:00, I would get to the airport on October 1st @ 22:00 to check in.
Right, I'd do this too.
Somewhere on this forum, a flight dispatcher wrote that many people showed up a full day late for their flights. Because there were always people doing this, they were simply rebooked to their new flight... and this suddenly stopped when they introduced 23:50 departures.
David
Even a letdown, if it is thoroughly and final, is a step forward.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21679 posts, RR: 23 Reply 22, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3295 times:
Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 21): This timing is used for passengers to avoid the date of flight confusion that may happens with midnight arrivals or departures.
As far as I know, the OAG system (used by almost all major airlines to distribute schedules to GDS systems) does not permit the use of 2400 as a departure time and 0000 as an arrival time. 2400 could be an arrival time and 0000 could be a departure time but due to the resulting confusion already mentioned, you virtually never see such times in airline schedules. It's much clear when it's 2359 or 0001.
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