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Runway Numbering Can It Be Changed  
User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 45
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3267 times:
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There has been a fair bit of incidents and acident8 due to pilots mistaking runways when they are parallel is there a way this can be changed to stop the confusion for example changing a runway number from 34L and 34R to say 34L and 35R a change of a number or would that throw off navigational instruments
The Singapore airline taking off on the wrong runway could have been avoided if this was the case
Also if this is not possible due to the compass heading etr could they build runways slightly off parallel to compensate for the change

[Edited 2012-09-15 06:10:20]


On a wing and a prayer
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Runway numbers do change for the shift of magnetic north. This happened in Tampa last year when 18R/36L and 18L/36R were changed to 19R/1L and 19L/1R.

Accidents where aircraft departed from the wrong runway can be prevented by the crew confirming they are on the correct runway.


User currently offlinelarspl From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

Hi JumboJim747. This is all ready in use at some airports.
i.e. 4 parallel runways will be numbered 25L 25R 26L 26R. But it still doesn't change the fact that mistakes are made the rundays remain in the same direction, only the name has changed.



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User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3767 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

Building runways slightly angled instead of parallel? Never. This would be very dangerous.

Naming parallel runways slightly incorrect to distinguish them? It's being done all the time. Look at CDG or ATL for example.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3097 times:
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Thanks for the reply guys but i was more concerned about changing the numbering so it can be plain as day and the confusion can be eleminated.
Cheers



On a wing and a prayer
User currently offlinenipoel123 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3094 times:

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 4):
Thanks for the reply guys but i was more concerned about changing the numbering so it can be plain as day and the confusion can be eleminated.
Cheers

Proper cooperation between crewmembers should solve this, if not ATC. They should see an aircraft is on the wrong runway before they clear them for take-off.



one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3073 times:
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gTstH3hzw5s
Check this out and you know what i mean.



On a wing and a prayer
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

Quoting JumboJim747 (Thread starter):

There has been a fair bit of incidents and acident8 due to pilots mistaking runways when they are parallel is there a way this can be changed to stop the confusion for example changing a runway number from 34L and 34R to say 34L and 35R a change of a number or would that throw off navigational instruments

It wouldn't throw off navigational instruments, but it would eventually get confusing for pilots at airports with many parallel runways. When you line up on a runway for takeoff, you check your compass against the runway number to make sure you're on the right one, and if the runway number is 20 or 30 degrees off the compass heading, that would catch my eye as potentially suspicious.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3031 times:
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Thanks for the reply Mir.
Im talking like a number difference of 1 for example instead of having 2 runways with the same number we can bavw one say 34 and one 35 instead of both being 34 left and right



On a wing and a prayer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2985 times:
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Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
It wouldn't throw off navigational instruments, but it would eventually get confusing for pilots at airports with many parallel runways.

Too true !
That's the situation at CDG : They started with runways 26 -south of the terminal - and 27 -north- although they had the same heading.
When they added the two shorter runways outside of the original two, the "doublets" became 08/26 R and L and 09/27 R and L.



Contrail designer
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 8):
Im talking like a number difference of 1 for example instead of having 2 runways with the same number we can bavw one say 34 and one 35 instead of both being 34 left and right

That could be just as confusing for an arriving aircraft. If I'm approaching the airport and I see two runways, and I'm cleared to land on 34L, it's pretty clear which one I'm going to be landing on. If I'm cleared to land on 34, then I have to start thinking about which is 34 and which is 35. It just gets complicated, and using L/R/C to identify runways, though it does have some drawbacks, is overall the better way to go.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2937 times:
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Too true
That one slipped my mind
How about putting the L and R before the numers would that be more clearer at a glace L34 R34
Cheers



On a wing and a prayer
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6940 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

SXM changed it's numbering a few years back due to a shift in magnetic north as well


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

The L/R/C designator always precedes the runway number...in the US anyway.

This brings up another question: I have always wondered why the runway designator painted markings in the US are much larger than everywhere else I have flown. In Europe for example the numbers are so small it's much harder to see them until very close. Bigger is better in this case unless there is advantage to smaller numbers that I am missing.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 11):
How about putting the L and R before the numers would that be more clearer at a glace L34 R34

I don't really see the difference between 34L and L34. Plus, when speaking on the radio, "left ______" is generally associated with a turn, so "cleared for takeoff left 34" could be misinterpreted as an instruction to turn left after takeoff.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinehorstroad From Germany, joined Apr 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2853 times:

a call out which runway the aircraft is on or which runway the aircraft is approaching helps a lot to prevent landings or take offs from wrong runways


http://youtu.be/ndi7N9EoHoI?t=2m48s

"Approaching 25 Right"
"On Runway 25 Right"


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15457 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2842 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
I don't really see the difference between 34L and L34. Plus, when speaking on the radio, "left ______" is generally associated with a turn, so "cleared for takeoff left 34" could be misinterpreted as an instruction to turn left after takeoff.

Seeing that on a sign or chart could also make it easier to confuse with a taxiway.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
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