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AA 757 Seats Detached From Seat Track?  
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1724 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3845 times:

More AA 757 seats coming detached?

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/second-...ts-becomes-loose/story?id=17364171


Ever see a seat with the seat track fittings properly latched down ever come loose?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Yes. And whoever signed for the installation of the seats will go for an interview with no coffee served, chair offered and hat on, if he won´t get his rear reamed with wirebrush by the FAA. He might actually well lose his A&P licence.

Jan


User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1023 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

If seat installation is not an RII item for AA, it may become one now..

User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3693 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
Yes. And whoever signed for the installation of the seats will go for an interview with no coffee served, chair offered and hat on, if he won´t get his rear reamed with wirebrush by the FAA. He might actually well lose his A&P licence.

Jan

Sir, you aren't kidding there. The folks (whether AA or contract) are not going to enjoy the visit from the guys who say "we are just here to help". I have been in a couple of those meetings (came out smelling like a rose) and they were not fun.

I can't stress enough though that this is not a conspiracy or sabotage as alluded to on other posts and news reports. It really just could not happen.


User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2534 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

The big question for me is when were these seats last installed or had a specific inspection done. The feds could hang the last guy that did a layover type check on some single block that says condition and security of cabin. For most guys I know this means a general walk through, not a go try to dislodge every seat row check.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 4):
The big question for me is when were these seats last installed or had a specific inspection done. The feds could hang the last guy that did a layover type check on some single block that says condition and security of cabin. For most guys I know this means a general walk through, not a go try to dislodge every seat row check.

Sure, this is big problem. How do you know that there wasn´t somebody after you who did some undocumented work?
In a company I use ton work for in heavy checks I had a very good Bulgarian colleague (an inspector). He was responsible for the whole tail and flight control rigging on this 737.
When the plane came back after the test flight after the D-check, he was called into the boss´s office because whenever the pilots moved the control column, one throttle moved as well. An inspection found the control cables for the elevators (which he rigged and had signed for) wrapped around the throttle cables. The aviation authority got involved as well.

It was later found out that a mechanic of the engine team, who had rigged the engine controls, had unauthorized opened the turnbuckles of the elevator cables for access without telling anybody AFTER the Bulgarian had finished and signed for his work and then missrigged them when he re-assembled them. Of course no documentation.
During the investigation he got found out and the Bulgarian cleared. The mechanic only didn´t get fired because at the time he had already handed in his notice himself.

But for a while it really looked bad for my Bulgarian friend.

BTW, flight and engine controls are RII, so a non-routine card should have been raised for a duplicate inspection.

Jan

BTW, the m echanic, who f#cked up and acted illegally was unlicenced.

[Edited 2012-10-02 06:04:28]

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3212 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):

Sure, this is big problem. How do you know that there wasn´t somebody after you who did some undocumented work?

Thats Exactly the problem one can face in Maintenance especially Major Maintenance,when many people are working on one aircraft & so many related systems.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1025 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 4):
The big question for me is when were these seats last installed or had a specific inspection done. The feds could hang the last guy that did a layover type check on some single block that says condition and security of cabin. For most guys I know this means a general walk through, not a go try to dislodge every seat row check

Just had a airplane that is just out of check at one of those 3rd party companies my wonderful airline wants to use and already have had 4 seats loose (One week out of check). Got to love that, when we did the c checks in a little town in Tulsa there was never any new media stories about loose seats.

Upper management getting what they pay for.



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 7):
Upper management getting what they pay for.

I don't buy the labor conspiracy theory behind the seats, but if what you say is true, how come we haven't seen this sort of problem from any of the many other airlines that also outsource maintenance?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2534 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
I don't buy the labor conspiracy theory behind the seats, but if what you say is true, how come we haven't seen this sort of problem from any of the many other airlines that also outsource maintenance?

My take is we have been lucky so far. I've had the seat check security work card in the past at DL. We do it every PSV (c check). I've found many seats some what loose that had to be tightened down. None were ready to pop out, but they needed attention.

I really think the result of the outsourced work leads to more work getting put on overnights and other lower checks. We find a lot more major work on our PSV lines than when we did the heavy checks in house. Sometimes they are becoming mini overhauls.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

Why can't tech services issue a callout after x number of hrs to check the security of the seats post installation.....Then we'll know if it was sabotage/improper mx/faulty fastners.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2020 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2864 times:
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Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 9):
I really think the result of the outsourced work leads to more work getting put on overnights and other lower checks. We find a lot more major work on our PSV lines than when we did the heavy checks in house. Sometimes they are becoming mini overhauls.

I don't think you can really blame this on whether or not the work is outsourced. If the work is being done in a shorter time by an outsourced company it has more to do with the demand of their customer. Most outsourced maintenance companies are essentially paid by the hour.


User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2749 times:
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Quoting syncmaster (Reply 11):
Most outsourced maintenance companies are essentially paid by the hour.






Essentially is not correct. Paid by the bid hour is exactly the way MRO's make their living. It is all on an hour bases. I have been involved in negotiations that are strictly "Hours to remove an aileron", "Hours to install a landing gear", "Hours to perform this modification" etc, etc. There is no other profitable way that I know of. Alot of MROs have tried to package deals and they have all failed. A few major repairs kill that revenue due to the systems that have to be dislocated for the repair more often then not.


Oops: I have now been drawn in to the off topic. Sorry.

This is all about seats and locking down those seats. Tie them down correctly and there is no problem and there is no need for another fastener. That part really boggled my little brain. Hell lets put a screw on top of a screw that is retaining that screw which is holding the fluxitator hold down mechanixm.

[Edited 2012-10-09 13:01:41]

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