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Interior/Overhead Bin Upgrade Package For MD-11?  
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6494 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

Considering KLM plans to keep flying their MD-11 fleet well into the future, does anyone think it would be a good idea if some manufacturer such as Heath Tecna or C&D Zodiac were to develop an interior/overhead bin upgrade package for the MD-11? The MD-11 interior does tend to show its age, and its bins aren't quite as large as the Boeing Signature pivot bins. Perhaps one of these manufacturers can develop a cabin refresh package with pivot bins, or at least larger capacity shelf bins.

One could argue that the customer base is too small, however, consider the fact that Heath Tecna developed a bin extension package for the MD-90 specifically for DL. And no, this is not the same package as the MD-88 bin extensions despite their similar exterior appearance, since the factory MD-90 bins are structurally different from the factory MD-88 bins. If KLM were to request something similar for the MD-11 I wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturer were to do so.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3821 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Only KLM operates the passenger MD11, and they are being phased out as we're speaking, with the first one already out of the fleet. What gives you any reason to say:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
KLM plans to keep flying their MD-11 fleet well into the future

?

Anyway, IMHO what you're suggesting makes no sense and it is not happening.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6494 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 1):
?

Anyway, IMHO what you're suggesting makes no sense and it is not happening.

Soren

Well, that seems a little surprising, considering they had AVOD and the new WBC seats installed only a few years ago. Why install AVOD and updated WBC seats on an aircraft you don't plan on keeping?



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2166 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Considering KLM plans to keep flying their MD-11 fleet well into the future, does anyone think it would be a good idea if some manufacturer such as Heath Tecna or C&D Zodiac were to develop an interior/overhead bin upgrade package for the MD-11?

What plans to keep flying them well into the future? KLM has already started to retire them this year.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
One could argue that the customer base is too small, however, consider the fact that Heath Tecna developed a bin extension package for the MD-90 specifically for DL. And no, this is not the same package as the MD-88 bin extensions despite their similar exterior appearance, since the factory MD-90 bins are structurally different from the factory MD-88 bins.

Delta has about 60 MD-90s, has no plans to get rid of them anytime soon, and there are other (admittedly small) operators that Heath Tecna could sell them too. KLM's 9 MD-11s are the only ones left in regular commercial passenger service (with World being the only other passenger MD-11 operator with a whopping 2 in use) and have already started to retire them. Heath Tecna are not going to waste their money.


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3821 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Well, that seems a little surprising, considering they had AVOD and the new WBC seats installed only a few years ago. Why install AVOD and updated WBC seats on an aircraft you don't plan on keeping?

AVOD and seats are part of the inflight product for the customer which needs to be consistent across the fleet, and you can probably even remove these things and install them on another aircraft later. You can't use overhead bins on another plane later. People make their decision about which airline to book depending on IFE and seats, particularly in the premium cabins, but not really on the overhead bins or lavatories. If you maintain an interior well (and KLM does this), you can keep it in good shape for ages.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineCargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1268 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3516 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Considering KLM plans to keep flying their MD-11 fleet well into the future,

They've already begun retiring the type...

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Perhaps one of these manufacturers can develop a cabin refresh package with pivot bins, or at least larger capacity shelf bins.

...But even if they weren't retiring them within the next 18-30 months, it wouldn't make sense for anybody to invest in new hard pieces for the interior. KLM is really the only MD-11 pax operator left, and it would cost quite a bit to design and certify new equipment for just a handful of planes with no chance of ever selling any additional units.

The MD-90 is a different situation, because the number of units in service, while still low compared to say, the 737-800, is quite a bit higher than the MD-11, and the MD-90s are not headed for retirement.

Even if the planes weren't headed to retirement, the economies of scale just aren't there.

[Edited 2012-10-03 14:36:48]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Well, that seems a little surprising, considering they had AVOD and the new WBC seats installed only a few years ago. Why install AVOD and updated WBC seats on an aircraft you don't plan on keeping?

That was 3 or 4 years ago, if not longer. That's plenty of time to amortize those costs, and fuel prices were lower then. A lot can change to affect fleet planning decisions in that period of time.

Even if they were planning to keep them for another 3 or 4 years, it would make no sense to invest that kind of money in designing new overhead bins for only 10 aircraft. I've flown KL MD-11s several times and the bins are big enough.

[Edited 2012-10-03 14:53:15]

User currently offlinetod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3165 times:

HT and KLM have a good working relationship.

If there was a commercially viable path forward on an MD11 bin upgrade it would have already happened.


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2124 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3015 times:

Here is the latest news about the KLM MD11 phase out , six remaining at the end of this year :

http://md-eleven.net/Latest-News-



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
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