JumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 50 Posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4241 times:
While reading up on the 747 first designs i noticed that Boeing had plans for a full length double decks.
Why did Boeing not go ahead with this instead opting for the hump. ?
nomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1562 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4217 times:
The design they were looking at was a narrower body double decker of about the same capacity as the 747. But when they and their customers, particularly Juan Trippe, saw a mockup of the wide body cabin, it was so impressive they decided to go that route.
The plane was originally though of as mainly a freighter. Putting to cockpit up high let them install a nose that opened for loading without the great complexity having the cockpit in the part that raised up. They went ahead and added a few seats behind the cockpit on the original and a lot more seats on later models.
Joe Sutter was the guy who headed the team and his book, 747, is a great read on the creation of the Jumbo.
nomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1562 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4101 times:
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 2): Hi nomadd.
Interesting that it was meant to be a freighter originally.
Is the original test frame still around. ?
Not so much meant to be a freighter as they thought the freighter would be most of it's sales. As with the 737, people thought that the SSTs would be the future of passenger travel and subsonic liners wouldn't be around that much longer.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21494 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3935 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 3): N7470, 747 #1, is at the Museum of Flight, Boeing Field, Seattle
As a sidenote re the photo, it's sad that those historically-important aircraft are sitting outdoors in SEA's far less-than-favorable climate for long-term aircraft preservation. They should ask a local resident like Bill Gates for a donation to build a hangar and name it for him. It would just be small change for him.
jetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1524 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3511 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 3): N7470, 747 #1, is at the Museum of Flight, Boeing Field, Seattle
A little bit of useless trivia as to why the #1 747, N7470 did not have the registration number of N747.
N747 was registered to FMC Corporation and they had that number way before Boeing even designed the 747, it goes back to when FMC operated a B-23 Dragon as their first corporate airplane.
I knew the mechanics from FMC, they were based in the same hanger where I worked and they told me that Boeing offered FMC tons of money for the registration number, but FMC turned it down because they had that number for many years and were not about to give it up, so Boeing went with N7470 instead.
Checking the FAA database today shows the number is reserved, but not assigned to any airplane.
cosmofly From United States of America, joined May 2009, 648 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3199 times:
Boeing still has a chance to make the 747 a full length double decker.
During the course of designing the 747-8, Boeing freed up the space above door 3 to door 5 and tried to promote adding beds, lounge, galley and even gym up there. There were no takers except for VIP jets. Pax seats cannot be added due to take off and landing safety regulations. Can Boeing overcome this?
Now that the design is already in place. How airlines can increase seat count by leveraging this new space will dictate if it will eventually happen. Moving galley and toilet up will allow some extra seat to be put on the main deck, but is it enough to justify?
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15871 posts, RR: 66 Reply 15, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3050 times:
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 14):
Is it in the pipeline for future designs for a full 2 deck aircraft to compete with the a380 say a 797 full double deck 800 seat capacity?
Probably not. The VLA market seems only large enough for one aircraft right now, and barely at that. The development costs are immense and the market is relatively small so likely not a good idea to try to enter when there is already an option.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3084 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 15): Probably not. The VLA market seems only large enough for one aircraft right now, and barely at that. The development costs are immense and the market is relatively small so likely not a good idea to try to enter when there is already an option.
Even that one aircraft isn't selling as well as projected.
JumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 50 Reply 17, posted (7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2677 times:
Starlionblue.
Thanks for that info its sad that at times that the state of the market dictates what gets done and doesn't although its completely right.
rcair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 927 posts, RR: 25 Reply 18, posted (7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2496 times:
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Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 17):
Starlionblue.
Thanks for that info its sad that at times that the state of the market dictates what gets done and doesn't although its completely right.
Huh? The state of the market should dictate what gets done. Define "right" if the market won't support it.
What is 'right' about a plane that will not sell, or causes the Manf or airline to loose money, the passenger to lose service. That is the way of bankruptcy - or these days - government bailouts (even worse).
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