With almost all new cars having L.e.d light strips somewhere on the front. Is it possible that one day we might be looking into the sky and see planes as in the video link? Has anyone ever done this on a real plane?
No, I don't think so. Those led lights are pretty much for show or for use as running lights, they are not the main lights at night, at least the ones I have seen are not.
Now, we will definitely see all new planes shift to using LEDs instead of the old type as they are cheaper and cleaner to use, but I highly doubt we will ever see a mass of lights on planes. It seems 2-7 properly placed lights are enough for most planes today.
ABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 834 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6178 times:
Keep in mind, most lights on an aircraft have a specific function. Red wingtip=Left(port) Green wingtip=Right(Starboard)
Red flashing lights on top=Anti-collison. Bright clear lights at wing root/wingtip=landing(approach)/taxi lights.
The strobe lights are intended for low visibility conditions, however if an a/c is IMC (flight in clouds) the strobes reflect back at the a/c so most crew members will turn them off once they are in a cloud deck. Its been a while since I had give observation about this, but I believe I got it right.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16824 posts, RR: 57 Reply 8, posted (7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5223 times:
LED's make poor point sources of light. Yes, such LED's are manufactured, but they require large heat sinks. When dimmer LED's are spread out around an area, the heat accumulation is much less.
What I could see happening is strips of LED's replacing point-source fixtures. So instead of a single strobe on each wingtip, there might be a strip of flashing LED's that wrap around the wingtip. Then again, at altitude the air is pretty cold and the heat accumulation for an LED strobe would be much less than for a continuous light, so it's possible that we won't see this.
brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3180 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4408 times:
Quoting cipango (Reply 3):
I dont think Airlines want to add any more costs. The lights they have now have been doing the job for a long time. Why change?
If LED lights were to be installed they would not have to be changed out as frequently but as mentioned, they would need a heat source at altitude.
comairguycvg From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 304 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3214 times:
I've always thought it would be neat if they could light up the International Space Station like that with LED lights around the outline of all the solar panels. It may look like just a tiny pinpoint of light from the ground but would make spotting it at night a bit easier I bet.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16824 posts, RR: 57 Reply 13, posted (7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3055 times:
Quoting brilondon (Reply 10): If LED lights were to be installed they would not have to be changed out as frequently but as mentioned, they would need a heat source at altitude.
They do not need a heat source. They MAKE heat, especially when clustered closely together. LED's are very good at cold-temperature operations. In fact, the colder, the better. They even continue to operate in liquid nitrogen (although the color of the emitted light changes due to the fact that electrons move more quickly in semiconductors at cold temperatures).
But, I thought LED lights are supposed to produce less glare and concentrate their light where needed. I notice some of the streets in my city have converted over to LED's. At first, when looking you think it's darker but actually the light is concentrated downward towards the street and visibility at night is much improved without the glare of the mercury vapor lights still in use. With the conventional mercury vapor lights, the light has more glare and you can be temporarilly blinded if you stare at them too long. That's not the case with LED's. And, the technology keeps evolving and they even become more efficient. I could imagine airliner tails illuminated with LED's. Also as with cars the red and amber lights can be LED's.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8751 posts, RR: 52 Reply 16, posted (7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2536 times:
You are not going to see strobes replaced by LED lights. They don't have the same impact and effect. Continuous light is harder to see than a strobe.
As far as LED lights are concerned, Boeing is putting LED lights on its airplanes for their landing lights. Boeing has LED landing lights for the 787, 747-8 and also the 737NG. I believe LED is also being used for the tail decoration light.
LED lights work well for high intensity directional light. Pilots need additional light for navigating the airport on the ground. This is where the lighter weight and higher intensity light technology is useful. For the purpose of seeing an airplane from a long distance away, LED isn't going to help much.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5446 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2516 times:
If you do the lighting right, I'm sure it can still be done without much problem to the pilots. Look at cruise ships: They follow international navigational light standards (Left red, Right green, stern white,) and are also lit all over, but they are dark where it counts---near the bridge.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 18, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
Quoting usair330 (Reply 6): Would it be legal for a pilot to try and put more lights on an aircraft?
As long as it didn't interfere with the other lights or other pilots' vision, yes. But all the current lights have specific functions so you need to prove that your new lights don't interfere with the existing functions. That means you automatically can't use red, white, or green. Other colours would have to be distinct enough to not be confusing. And every extra light means more power and more weight.
Quoting comairguycvg (Reply 11): I've always thought it would be neat if they could light up the International Space Station like that with LED lights around the outline of all the solar panels. It may look like just a tiny pinpoint of light from the ground but would make spotting it at night a bit easier I bet.
It already reflects a hell of a lot of sunlight (when it's in the sun)...that will be brighter than anything they can do with LEDs.
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16): You are not going to see strobes replaced by LED lights.
The 787 already replaced the strobes with white blinking LEDs.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16824 posts, RR: 57 Reply 19, posted (7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2435 times:
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16):
You are not going to see strobes replaced by LED lights. They don't have the same impact and effect. Continuous light is harder to see than a strobe.
They have already been replaced on the 787. And actually, LED's make excellent strobes. A 10MHz pulsed LED has been developed, so they are actually capable of turning on and off far more quickly than any other sort of light except a laser.
It just has to be a very bright LED. But those are available these days.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1601 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2256 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8): Then again, at altitude the air is pretty cold and the heat accumulation for an LED strobe would be much less than for a continuous light, so it's possible that we won't see this.
It's such a pain when even though most of the time these lights will be operating at temperature is bellow freezing, designers still have to design for them to operate on the tarmac in Riyadh under the mid-day sun.
Are not the navigation and anti-collision lights on all the time day or night?
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1601 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2255 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): LED's are very good at cold-temperature operations.
Good to know. I bought some LED's from Costco and put them in my Fridge and Freezer. Wasn't worried about the energy consumption of the light but figured that having spent energy cooling the air in there, why warm it up with an incandescent light bulb?
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8751 posts, RR: 52 Reply 24, posted (7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2173 times:
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 22):
It's such a pain when even though most of the time these lights will be operating at temperature is bellow freezing, designers still have to design for them to operate on the tarmac in Riyadh under the mid-day sun.
Your point is true for everything outside the pressure vessel. IT may be a challenge with lights, but if you want to see a real challenge, try to seal the rod end of a hydraulic flight controls actuator at 3000psi that works from -80C up to 60C. There's a reason why you see streaks behind the aileron, elevator and rudder actuators. It is virtually impossible to make things work perfectly in those temperature extremes on an airplane.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15872 posts, RR: 66 Reply 25, posted (7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2246 times:
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 22): Are not the navigation and anti-collision lights on all the time day or night?
I can only speak for general aviation but you only need the beacon during the day. The nav lights are only required at night. The strobes are recommended on in flight (especially at night), except in clouds where they reflect back and make visibility worse.
Again, I can only speak for general aviation.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16824 posts, RR: 57 Reply 26, posted (7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2200 times:
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 22): It's such a pain when even though most of the time these lights will be operating at temperature is bellow freezing, designers still have to design for them to operate on the tarmac in Riyadh under the mid-day sun.
Yes, but only for an hour at a time, tops. And the sorts of temps encountered even in those conditions aren't high enough to shut off an LED.
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 27, posted (7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2146 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 25): I can only speak for general aviation but you only need the beacon during the day.
For airlines they almost universally use the beacon to indicate to the ground crew that they're starting engines, so you'll see beacons on in the daytime. This isn't usually relevant for GA, where there's little/no ground crew and it's darn obvious when the engine is turning.
comairguycvg From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 304 posts, RR: 1 Reply 28, posted (7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2110 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 18): It already reflects a hell of a lot of sunlight (when it's in the sun)...that will be brighter than anything they can do with LEDs.
Right but I was talking strictly about when it's completely dark with no sunlight reflecting off of it at all.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15872 posts, RR: 66 Reply 29, posted (7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2058 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 27): Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 25):
I can only speak for general aviation but you only need the beacon during the day.
For airlines they almost universally use the beacon to indicate to the ground crew that they're starting engines, so you'll see beacons on in the daytime. This isn't usually relevant for GA, where there's little/no ground crew and it's darn obvious when the engine is turning.
Obvious once it has started yes. However it is not that obvious that it is about to start. Many instructors recommend leaving the beacon switch on at all times. That way as soon as you flip on the electrics the beacon goes on, indicating the aircraft may start the engine(s) soon.
Also lots more people walking around GA planes that have (seemingly) little or no training or understanding of safety. You don't yell "clear prop" for nothing...
Btu we were talking of in flight. GA will use the beacon (if so equipped) at all times. The strobes can substitute if the beacon is inop.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
web500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 588 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1574 times:
Anti collision (beacon or strobe) lights are required for basic day VFR flight. Obviously they can be turned off if it interferes with flying the airplane (in a cloud) the light in question can be turned off- but it must work.
On the cirrus I fly it means that the the strobe must work for day and night, on a Cessna, during the day, you can get away with only a beacon working. At night the strobes must work for all airplanes, and the landing light must work for all aircraft used for hire (again there is the caveat of the lights interfering with a pilots ability to function).
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You don't yell "clear prop" for nothing...
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