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Boeing 787 Pax Window W/ Cracked Layer  
User currently offlineMikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7416 times:

I have not heard of or seen other pics of 787 windows with this trouble so I'm sharing. This is from my window at seat 21L on United N26906 on the 10th of this month. It looked the same the next morning when i rode it a 2nd time. I believe only the layer of glass with the dimming tech is cracked. The plane is brand new and it got me wondering if this is turning out to be a common issue or if I saw something new / rare.

United 787 N26906 - Broken window layer in flight on 11/10/2012


United 787 N26906 - Broken window layer in flight on 11/10/2012


30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

Interesting.

Seeing the aircraft is new, I'd say it's a defective interior window pane.
I'm not sure of the electrical currents involved in the system, I'm thinking not enough to induce a lot of heat that would entail large temperature shocks over time.

I'm assuming changing them isn't very difficult, even with the polarizing system.

It will be interesting to see how the system copes with time and cycles. Always the downside of introducing a new piece of tech...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

The 787 window has three separate panes. A structural outer pane, a "dust" pane on the cabin side, and a dimmable pane in between. The dimmable pane is two thin sheets of glass with an electrochromic gel sandwitched inside. If the dimmable pane is defective, or if it is damaged on installation, the heat of applying a current the gel can cause one of the glass sheets to crack. As seen in the photos, this can make for some really interesting visual effects. The current applied to the gel is very low, measured in mA.

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

Quoting MikeM2648 (Thread starter):
I believe only the layer of glass with the dimming tech is cracked.

Yep. Cracks in either of the other two panes don't cause that cool localized tinting.

Quoting MikeM2648 (Thread starter):
The plane is brand new and it got me wondering if this is turning out to be a common issue or if I saw something new / rare.

I've seen it before but rarely...relative to number of hours it's certainly not common.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
I'm assuming changing them isn't very difficult, even with the polarizing system.

Changing the dimmable is pretty quick (something like 20 minutes). The inner dust pane just pops out, then you can pop the dimmable pane out and pull its connector loose (it hooks into the dimmable switch just below the window).

Tom.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 7421 times:

I thought the Dimmer control knob would be a Maintenance issue if not handled well by pax....This is another snag on the window.looks like the dimmer section screen has shorted out.
Anyone aware of the location of the same.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1823 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):

Why is this worse than a broken blinder? I hardly think its worse than the old blinder that quite often brakes and gets stuck.


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):

Seeing the aircraft is new, I'd say it's a defective interior window pane.

I will agree. It seemed that the crack propagated from the left edge from some sort of anomaly. It grew sporadically until that final run of sweeping curve that started half way across the pane.

If it started at the edge it could be more of a manufacturing defect. Any luggage impact could have aggravated the defect that was already there.

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineMikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

There were 6 more tiny little cracks all originating at the forward edge of the window. They were no more than 1cm in length and were not noticeable unless you were looking for them. The window would still go from clear to fully dimmed in the non-cracked area. It is clear in the first picture and in the 2nd I have dimmed it several notches.

-Mike


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2387 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

Window damage was mentioned in this trip report:

United Boeing 787 Dreamliner Ride: IAH-LAX-IAH (by C767P Nov 10 2012 in Trip Reports)

Quote:
One window was already damaged. Apparently someone hit it with luggage.

Not sure if its the same aircraft though.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
This is another snag on the window.looks like the dimmer section screen has shorted out.
Anyone aware of the location of the same.

Location of the dimmer pane? It's between the dust pane and the stuctural pane. The non-cracked portion of the window still dims when this happens.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 6):
If it started at the edge it could be more of a manufacturing defect. Any luggage impact could have aggravated the defect that was already there.

There isn't really any way to have a luggage impact...from the inside you hit the dust pane, not the dimmer pane. From teh outside, you hit the structural pane. Unless it was hit with luggage while being installed, but that seems really unlikely.

Tom.


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

I'm curious if people have seen this on the ANA aircraft.

If it's just the United plane, then it could be a bad batch of windows.

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30986 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7421 times:
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Quoting bikerthai (Reply 10):
I'm curious if people have seen this on the ANA aircraft.

I've not seen reports of it. There has been one trip report where the dimming layer failed clear, so NH used a stick-on shade.


User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

Clearly, the windows in the first photo are just fine... Those are obviously wing cracks  


harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

Quoting mffoda (Reply 12):
.. Those are obviously wing cracks

No, no, no, composite wings don't crack, they just de-laminate . . .   . What you are seeing is Z direction de-lamination.   

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7387 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 9):
Location of the dimmer pane? It's between the dust pane and the stuctural pane. The non-cracked portion of the window still dims when this happens.

Was indicating the probable location of the shorting source.......anyone aware.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2351 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

If these problems continue to occur, you think Boeing will come up with a classic pull down window shade option for the 787?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6610 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 15):
If these problems continue to occur, you think Boeing will come up with a classic pull down window shade option for the 787?

Only if the cracked windows do not dim completely. No one here have mentioned if that was the case.

As Tom have said, changing the windows is relatively simple. For a pull-down shade, if you need to change those, you have to take out the sidewall liner. (which may also be easy . . . as I have not seen one of those changed either).

bt

[Edited 2012-11-27 11:55:27]


Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6451 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 15):
If these problems continue to occur, you think Boeing will come up with a classic pull down window shade option for the 787?

I thought ANA was opting for the same....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6409 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 15):
If these problems continue to occur, you think Boeing will come up with a classic pull down window shade option for the 787?

I thought ANA was opting for the same....

No, there is no option for shades on the 787. ANA's concerns with the windows have, to my understanding, been resolved.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 18):
ANA's concerns with the windows have, to my understanding, been resolved.

How was it resolved to NAs satisfaction.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCOEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5922 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
How was it resolved to NAs satisfaction.

I couldn't quite figure out what ANA's concern really was. Was it the case that the early 787's windows did not dim as much as they do now? The dimmed windows on the sunny side of the United 787 that I flew in pretty much shut out almost all light AFAICT.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 20):
I couldn't quite figure out what ANA's concern really was.

That the intensity in dark position was not totally dark & the control knob was too fragile.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):

How was it resolved to NAs satisfaction.

I don't know all the details. I was told, internally, that changes had been made to the dimming and ANA is now happy. If any non-proprietary details are made available, I'll let you know.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
the control knob was too fragile.

This I had not heard. I'm not aware of any concerns they had about the control switches. Do you have any sources or details?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19701 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):

That the intensity in dark position was not totally dark & the control knob was too fragile.

There is no knob. It's a button.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 22):
This I had not heard. I'm not aware of any concerns they had about the control switches.

A friend of mine flew out of IAH last Friday and when I jokingly asked him if he broke the window from playing with it throughout the whole flight, he said it was already broken when he boarded. Not the window itself, but the buttons - which he said looked like they had been pushed in too far.

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 22):
I was told, internally, that changes had been made to the dimming and ANA is now happy.

Don't they still offer supplementary "stick-on" window shades?
Stick-On Shade To Cover 787 Dimmable Window (by duncan16 Sep 16 2012 in Civil Aviation)

In skimming through above thread, reply 31 mentioned defective controls as well.


25 Post contains images KELPkid : I wonder if that is part of why they are getting broken in service. People tend to "mash" buttons when they don't get the desired response, and I won
26 kanban : It's like people hammering on the cross walk buttons as though repeated action speeds the process.. dummies!!!
27 tdscanuck : The button guys are aware of this problem; that's why there is an LED bezel around the buttons that responds immediately so you know the system "hear
28 HAWK21M : From folks at ANA....Nothing in the press though......
29 ikramerica : In some locales, like Southern California, repeated presses do have an impact. Super efficient (read: power hungry) transportation engineers decide w
30 rwessel : Surely you have to see some value in maximizing traffic flow? What about the valuable time of all the other drivers?
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