MikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4868 times:
I have not heard of or seen other pics of 787 windows with this trouble so I'm sharing. This is from my window at seat 21L on United N26906 on the 10th of this month. It looked the same the next morning when i rode it a 2nd time. I believe only the layer of glass with the dimming tech is cracked. The plane is brand new and it got me wondering if this is turning out to be a common issue or if I saw something new / rare.
United 787 N26906 - Broken window layer in flight on 11/10/2012
United 787 N26906 - Broken window layer in flight on 11/10/2012
francoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3196 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4876 times:
Interesting.
Seeing the aircraft is new, I'd say it's a defective interior window pane.
I'm not sure of the electrical currents involved in the system, I'm thinking not enough to induce a lot of heat that would entail large temperature shocks over time.
I'm assuming changing them isn't very difficult, even with the polarizing system.
It will be interesting to see how the system copes with time and cycles. Always the downside of introducing a new piece of tech...
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
CM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4875 times:
The 787 window has three separate panes. A structural outer pane, a "dust" pane on the cabin side, and a dimmable pane in between. The dimmable pane is two thin sheets of glass with an electrochromic gel sandwitched inside. If the dimmable pane is defective, or if it is damaged on installation, the heat of applying a current the gel can cause one of the glass sheets to crack. As seen in the photos, this can make for some really interesting visual effects. The current applied to the gel is very low, measured in mA.
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 3, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4875 times:
Quoting MikeM2648 (Thread starter): I believe only the layer of glass with the dimming tech is cracked.
Yep. Cracks in either of the other two panes don't cause that cool localized tinting.
Quoting MikeM2648 (Thread starter): The plane is brand new and it got me wondering if this is turning out to be a common issue or if I saw something new / rare.
I've seen it before but rarely...relative to number of hours it's certainly not common.
Quoting francoflier (Reply 1): I'm assuming changing them isn't very difficult, even with the polarizing system.
Changing the dimmable is pretty quick (something like 20 minutes). The inner dust pane just pops out, then you can pop the dimmable pane out and pull its connector loose (it hooks into the dimmable switch just below the window).
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4873 times:
I thought the Dimmer control knob would be a Maintenance issue if not handled well by pax....This is another snag on the window.looks like the dimmer section screen has shorted out.
Anyone aware of the location of the same.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1595 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4873 times:
Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Seeing the aircraft is new, I'd say it's a defective interior window pane.
I will agree. It seemed that the crack propagated from the left edge from some sort of anomaly. It grew sporadically until that final run of sweeping curve that started half way across the pane.
If it started at the edge it could be more of a manufacturing defect. Any luggage impact could have aggravated the defect that was already there.
MikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4873 times:
There were 6 more tiny little cracks all originating at the forward edge of the window. They were no more than 1cm in length and were not noticeable unless you were looking for them. The window would still go from clear to fully dimmed in the non-cracked area. It is clear in the first picture and in the 2nd I have dimmed it several notches.
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4873 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4): This is another snag on the window.looks like the dimmer section screen has shorted out.
Anyone aware of the location of the same.
Location of the dimmer pane? It's between the dust pane and the stuctural pane. The non-cracked portion of the window still dims when this happens.
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 6): If it started at the edge it could be more of a manufacturing defect. Any luggage impact could have aggravated the defect that was already there.
There isn't really any way to have a luggage impact...from the inside you hit the dust pane, not the dimmer pane. From teh outside, you hit the structural pane. Unless it was hit with luggage while being installed, but that seems really unlikely.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 14, posted (6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4839 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 9): Location of the dimmer pane? It's between the dust pane and the stuctural pane. The non-cracked portion of the window still dims when this happens.
Was indicating the probable location of the shorting source.......anyone aware.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1595 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4062 times:
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 15): If these problems continue to occur, you think Boeing will come up with a classic pull down window shade option for the 787?
Only if the cracked windows do not dim completely. No one here have mentioned if that was the case.
As Tom have said, changing the windows is relatively simple. For a pull-down shade, if you need to change those, you have to take out the sidewall liner. (which may also be easy . . . as I have not seen one of those changed either).
BoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 312 posts, RR: 33 Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3861 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17): Quoting SXDFC (Reply 15):
If these problems continue to occur, you think Boeing will come up with a classic pull down window shade option for the 787?
I thought ANA was opting for the same....
No, there is no option for shades on the 787. ANA's concerns with the windows have, to my understanding, been resolved.
COEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 305 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3374 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19): How was it resolved to NAs satisfaction.
I couldn't quite figure out what ANA's concern really was. Was it the case that the early 787's windows did not dim as much as they do now? The dimmed windows on the sunny side of the United 787 that I flew in pretty much shut out almost all light AFAICT.
BoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 312 posts, RR: 33 Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3099 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
How was it resolved to NAs satisfaction.
I don't know all the details. I was told, internally, that changes had been made to the dimming and ANA is now happy. If any non-proprietary details are made available, I'll let you know.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21): the control knob was too fragile.
This I had not heard. I'm not aware of any concerns they had about the control switches. Do you have any sources or details?
flood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1052 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3013 times:
Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 22): This I had not heard. I'm not aware of any concerns they had about the control switches.
A friend of mine flew out of IAH last Friday and when I jokingly asked him if he broke the window from playing with it throughout the whole flight, he said it was already broken when he boarded. Not the window itself, but the buttons - which he said looked like they had been pushed in too far.
Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 22): I was told, internally, that changes had been made to the dimming and ANA is now happy.
I wonder if that is part of why they are getting broken in service. People tend to "mash" buttons when they don't get the desired response, and I wonder how quick a button press yields a darkening or lightening of the window
Just putting my human factors studies to use
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2467 posts, RR: 21 Reply 26, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3020 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 25): I wonder if that is part of why they are getting broken in service. People tend to "mash" buttons when they don't get the desired response, and I wonder how quick a button press yields a darkening or lightening of the window
It's like people hammering on the cross walk buttons as though repeated action speeds the process.. dummies!!!
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 27, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3044 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 25): People tend to "mash" buttons when they don't get the desired response, and I wonder how quick a button press yields a darkening or lightening of the window
The button guys are aware of this problem; that's why there is an LED bezel around the buttons that responds immediately so you know the system "heard" you. The LED for the level you selected flashes while the window is transitioning, then it goes solid when the window hits the target level.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 28, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2988 times:
Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 22): This I had not heard. I'm not aware of any concerns they had about the control switches. Do you have any sources or details?
From folks at ANA....Nothing in the press though......
ikramerica From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 29, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2718 times:
In some locales, like Southern California, repeated presses do have an impact. Super efficient (read: power hungry) transportation engineers decide when to switch the lights based on overall traffic demand, both historic (time of day) and dynamic (current demand).
Not enough current demand? Light might stay against you longer. Or, only one car waiting to turn left? Let's skip their turn this time around and make them sit there for 4 additional minutes. After all, your time isn't valuable enough to matter.
Moral? Press the button more than once (but not right away), and the light MAY change faster...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2648 times:
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 29): In some locales, like Southern California, repeated presses do have an impact. Super efficient (read: power hungry) transportation engineers decide when to switch the lights based on overall traffic demand, both historic (time of day) and dynamic (current demand).
Not enough current demand? Light might stay against you longer. Or, only one car waiting to turn left? Let's skip their turn this time around and make them sit there for 4 additional minutes. After all, your time isn't valuable enough to matter.
Surely you have to see some value in maximizing traffic flow? What about the valuable time of all the other drivers?
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, 
From France, joined Oct 2001, 3196 posts, 
From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, 
From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1551 posts, 
From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 1404 posts, 
. What you are seeing is Z direction de-lamination. 
, 21029 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
