emirates773 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4889 times:
According to the CAA in the UK this is what is the current situation:
There are two different types of registration marks currently issued, in-sequence and out-of-sequence marks. These differ in the fee for registration of each one, see forms and fees. In-sequence registrations have been used since 1919 starting at G-EAAA to G-EBZZ and then starting again at G-AAAA. The current sequence reached G-CBAA during 2001. Each aircraft in turn is allocated the next sequential mark within a range of three blocks of registrations (e.g. if the next mark to be issued is G-CBAA then an in-sequence mark is any between G-CBAA and G-CBCZ which has not already been used, this means there are always 75 in-sequence marks to chose from).
There are no longer any historical registration marks available for issue (i.e. between G-AAAA and the current in-sequence range) unless it is the original aircraft that is being re-registered or restored to the UK Register. Generally an original aircraft can return to any of the UK registration marks that it has previously carried.
Each aircraft is allocated only one in-sequence mark although it is possible for the same aircraft to have an unlimited amount of out-of-sequence marks in its history. Registration marks cannot be re-used on different aircraft even if the original aircraft that carried the marks has been registered overseas or destroyed.
source: CAA Website
Just a couple to start with: Australia re issue registrations e.g VH-EBL on a B747-238 now on a A330-203, Singapore re issue e.g 9V-STE on a A310-324 is now on an A330-343E. Possibly the UAE as well as some VIP aircraft have carried the same marks on differeing frames.
Not sure about the exact legal conditions, but Belgium definitely reuses since I recently flew on a helicopter (Robinson R44) registered OO-SJC. A quick Google (or Airliners.net) lookup shows that OO-SJC used to be a Sabena Boeing 707.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7538 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4511 times:
Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 4): I wonder if CAA will change this in future or open up a new sequence after G-ZZZZ? I'm sure it's a legacy thing but seems strange many countries do reuse yet some, especially UK don't.
With 25 letters (as the CAA does not use 'Q') and a four letter sequence there are 390,625 different possible registrations in the current system. If they decided to start to use 'Q' then that number would increase to 456,976. That's a huge number of aircraft.
In sequence registrations reached G-CAAA in 2001 - see Thread Opener - and in the middle of this year, eleven years later had progressed to around G-CHAA. That means the CAA have used one third of the available G-Cxxx registrations in eleven years. At that rate the G-Cxxx series will last until 2033, the G-Dxxx (G-Exxxx are already used) series to 2066 and the G-Fxxx series to 2099.
So with a further 19 initial letter registrations beyond "F" available, at the current rate of useage there are sufficient unused registrations to last well into the 25th century. So today I do not think anybody in the CAA will be worrying too much about where to go next.
bohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4435 times:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7): The US reuses registrations after a certain number of years - I'm not sure of the exact time frame,
It is a very short time frame. I remember when I was at ACA when we lost N304UE, a J-41, in a fatal accident in CMH. About a year later, a new executive noticed the gap in the numbering sequence and had the next J-41 delivered registered N304UE. Obviously this created a lot of negative emotions at the airline and over 600 employees signed a petition to have the number changed out of respect for the crew and passengers who died in the accident, as well as all others who were affected by it. ACA changed the registration to N324UE.
Some major corporations in the US will re-register their newest corporate jet with the same N-number that was on the old jet it replaced, giving the old jet a new N-number.
bluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4360 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 5): So with a further 19 initial letter registrations beyond "F" available, at the current rate of useage there are sufficient unused registrations to last well into the 25th century. So today I do not think anybody in the CAA will be worrying too much about where to go next.
Ha ha fairpoint that is quite a long way off always good to think long term, especially with Easyjet apparently looking at a large order .
Microlite, hot air balloons and having quite a few aircraft registered in later half of alphabet (G-VHOT, G-ZZZA etc must reduce by several decades but agree CAA might not be panicking quite yet.
With the Germans and other countries reusing registrations and many have the 4 digit suffix, X-XXXX they won't ever run out then. Some countries like keeping to certain regs. Lufthansa use D-AI** for airbus industry, D-AB** for Boeing and D-AE for Embraers.
Interesting that UK might be the only country (not confirmed) to not reuse registrations marks.
Netherlands: a registration can be re-used 30 years after the registration has been withdrawn from the register.
Registrations can be marked as 'never re-use'. This is common practice for registration that have been involved in an accident with (deadly) victims. For example, PH-BUF (which was involved in the Tenerife crash) will never be re-issued again.
Quoting VV701 (Reply 3): As previously mentioned, Germany reuses registrations. Here are two different LH Boeings both registered D-ABIH:
D-ABYA is also a nice one. The first LH 747 and the first 748 share the reg:
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4113 times:
Registrations in Canada can be reused without any restrictions as far as I know. CP recycled many registrations. For example, CF-CPC was used on a Lockheed 14, DC-4, DC-6 and 737-200. C-FCRA was used on a 747-200, DC-10-30 and 747-400.
TimRees From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4034 times:
Countries I can think of that re-use registrations not already mentioned include;
Iceland and Luxemburg
Countries which don't seem to re-register (please correct me if incorrect) include:
Spain, Italy, Portugal, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland.
Spain has a shorter lifespan of registrations left as they are already registering in the EC-LSx range and so are more than half way through their available numbers. When I started spotting in around 1971 they were still using EC-Bxx numbers so at this rate they will run out in only around 50 years! Not that I will need to worry about that.....
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2091 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4013 times:
The UK also has the: -
* M- series registrations, which have been allocated to the Isle of Man
* VP- series reigistrations, which are allocated amongst UK Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories
* VQ- series registrations, which are allocated amongst UK Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories
* VS- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZB- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZC- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZD- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZE- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZF- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZG- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZH- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZI- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZJ- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZN- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZO- series registrations, which are unallocated
* ZQ- series registrations, which are unallocated
* 2- series registrations, which are unallocated
So this might explain why there has never been any interest in reusing registrations!
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3661 times:
I did a quick search of NTSB fatal accidents in the US from 12/01/78-12/01/88 of Boeing aircraft. The reg # of the PanAm 727 which crashed in New Orleans has been reused.
The reg # of the Air Florida 737 which crashed in DC has not been reused and the 'status' of the aircraft is listed as not current - but it does show the reg # still applies to the AF 737.
A search of McDonnell-Douglas shows the reg # of the DC-9 which crashed in Minnesota in April 89 was reused. The World Airways DC-10 which crashed at BOS is listed as deregistered so the number is available.
The Lockheed L-1011 which crashed at DFW - the reg # is unassigned and available.
Some other results - the TWA 800 aircraft reg # was reserved by an individual in Minnesota in July 2011.
The AA 757 which crashed in Columbia is deregistered and the # is available.
The US Air 737 which crashed near Pittsburgh is still registered.
The United Airlines 737 which crashed near Colorado Springs is deregistered and the # is available.
The US Air 737 involved in the fatal runway collision at LAX is deregistered and the # is available.
The PanAm 103 reg # has been reserved since Nov 93 by an individual in Connecticut.
The ValuJet DC-9 reg # has been reserved since Mar 99 by an inividual in Florida.
The United DC-10 which crashed in Souix City reg # is deregistered and available.
The AA DC-10 at Chicago reg # has been used since mid-2007 for a small private aircraft.
Of the 9/11 aircraft
AA Flt 77 reg # has been reserved since 9/15/2006 by an individual in Marylan
AA Flt 11 reg # has been reserved since 9/15/2006 by the same individual
UA Flt 175 reg # has been deregistered and is available.
UA Flt 93 reg # has been deregistered and is available.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3563 times:
Quoting tan1mill (Reply 24): Quoting joost (Reply 11):
Registrations can be marked as 'never re-use'. This is common practice for registration that have been involved in an accident with (deadly) victims.
Does anyone know if this is also true in the US?
Only if you pay the annual fee to reserve the registration. Anyone can do that. I think the fee is quite low. It used to be $10 a year
bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3559 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 29): Only if you pay the annual fee to reserve the registration. Anyone can do that. I think the fee is quite low. It used to be $10 a year
Yes, although that's not quite the same thing. In this case, the number is simply not being used because you've reserved it, and need to renew it every year - not because the FAA put a 'never re-use' flag on it.
...and yes, still $10/year!
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 35, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3206 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 34): $10 seems a low price......Especially for Aviation costwise.
Having had worked with I.T. with another US government entity (the FCC, or Federal Communications Commission), I wouldn't be suprised if the entire US aircraft registry is maintained by one person on a computer running Microsoft Access Cue the guy who's going to disprove me now...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)