JumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 50 Posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5731 times:
What are some sayings you don't hear much anymore between pilots and atc.
The one that comes to my mind is an operational saying ¨Cleared at takeoff ¨ pilots could easily mistake it for cleared for takeoff as we saw with the KLM accident at tenerife.
What are some others
Wilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8476 posts, RR: 78 Reply 3, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5676 times:
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Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 2): Is this line up and wait what all countries use or just a select few.
I know its used here in Australia also.
As far as I know it is like that in most countries. I can only think of the US where it was different. But I haven't been everywhere
So maybe there are countries out there who does it differently.
26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 666 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5596 times:
Here's one: I haven't heard ATC say to "Report the outer marker" for years. They now say to report a fix usually identified by GPS. Maybe this is just a change in the US....not sure. Anybody reporting the marker any more?
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5543 times:
Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 5): I don't know. But they changed it about a year ago or so. Maybe they recognized they were the only using different phrasiology than all the others...
That's why they did it...the FAA has been excited about runway incursions for several years and they realized they weren't helping themselves by using a different phrase than everyone else.
26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 666 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5470 times:
Another: ...perhaps a stretch....In the US we no longer hear ATC say temp in Fahrenheit. Some of us still miss the old SA (METAR) and FA (TAF). Nothing wrong with metric but temp in F is what the US still uses (like it or not) almost exclusively outside of aviation.
unattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2240 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5095 times:
Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 1): This has changed now to the standard: "Line up and wait"
This is an accepted ICAO phrase. The FAA has changed several of it's "laws" to better fit with ICAO standards.
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1634 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4912 times:
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3496 posts, RR: 72 Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4619 times:
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 16): Oh yes the concord.
What a sad thing no one will ever hear that again.
Some ATCOs still allow climbing cruise between LAX and Tahiti PPT. So "cleared block 350 to 390" is still heard.
All the Q codes have completely disappeared : Last ones around are QNH / QFE and that's about it.
GGP, number in the approach sequence is still talked about , QFU, runway orientation -just the number nowadays...
Gone is the QGO :,closed due to weather, killed by Cat III B !
In the US the tower said for many years: "Taxi into position and hold". This has changed now to the standard: "Line up and wait".
wilco737
Which, whenever I heard it, was always abbreviated to "Position and Hold". I used to love acknowledging a Position and Hold clearance when I was giving kids a ride in the Cessna for the first time It just sounded so cool...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
atct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2038 posts, RR: 40 Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4502 times:
Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 18): "Turn left to XXX for radar identification."
It usually "Turn thirty degrees left/right for radar ident" and I say it at least once a week. Its used for aircraft that are negative transponder and there are alot of those up here in Alaska.
atct
Real pilots fly planes that take and measure oil in gallons
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4739 posts, RR: 10 Reply 25, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4579 times:
Well most have moved on from calling airports aerodromes or airfields but there are still many pilots who use those terms... sounds very military/pre-jetage.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 26, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4432 times:
Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 3): Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 2):
Is this line up and wait what all countries use or just a select few.
I know its used here in Australia also.
As far as I know it is like that in most countries. I can only think of the US where it was different. But I haven't been everywhere
Canada also used the US wording until fairly recent years. Not sure but I believe Canada may have adopted the ICAO wording "Line up and wait" before the US did.
The US, (and Canadian) phraseology of "Cleared to position and hold" (which meant taxi ONTO the runway but don't take off) was too confusing with the ICAO, "Cleared to holding position", (which mean taxi to, but HOLD SHORT, of the runway).
Now that "line up and wait", has replaced "cleared to position and hold" there is less confusion.
Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 19): Don't know when I last heard the request "what's your [VOR] radial and DME from XXX?"
Every day in the Caribbean!
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 29, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4382 times:
Not many NDB approach clearances out there in the U.S.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 9): That's why they did it...the FAA has been excited about runway incursions for several years and they realized they weren't helping themselves by using a different phrase than everyone else.
Very true however; many runway incursions were not caused by "position and hold" rather by folks simply not stopping at on the taxiway when they were told to "hold short of Runway XX on Taxiway XX" after reading the clearance back to the controllers.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7725 posts, RR: 73 Reply 30, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4361 times:
I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
Boeing77W From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 156 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4327 times:
Quoting zeke (Reply 30): I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.
I've heard it a few times in the UK. Mainly from Scottish ACC.
I'm still yet to be told an official definition so if you wouldn't mind sharing...
[Edited 2012-12-06 09:26:31]
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards..."
saafnav From South Africa, joined Mar 2010, 206 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4286 times:
Quoting zeke (Reply 30): I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2312 posts, RR: 7 Reply 34, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4286 times:
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26722 posts, RR: 83 Reply 35, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4291 times:
Quoting zeke (Reply 30): I have not heard a "security security security" transmission in a long long time, not even sure if a lot of the younger pilots would know what it means.
Quoting Boeing77W (Reply 31): I'm still yet to be told an official definition so if you wouldn't mind sharing...
To do so probably contravenes the Official Secrets Act.
xjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2345 posts, RR: 52 Reply 36, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4235 times:
Decimal in lieu of point. "Contact xxx approach now on 131 decimal 75."
zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7725 posts, RR: 73 Reply 38, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4123 times:
Quoting Boeing77W (Reply 31):
I'm still yet to be told an official definition so if you wouldn't mind sharing...
Quoting some relevant regulations...
"Safety signal
(1) The safety signal shall be transmitted when an aircraft wishes to transmit a message concerning the safety of navigation or to give important meteorological warnings.
(2) The safety signal shall be sent before the call and:
(a) in the case of radiotelegraphy shall consist of 3 repetitions of the group TTT (— — —), sent with the letters of each group and the successive groups clearly separated from each other; and
(b) in the case of radiotelephony shall consist of the word ‘SECURITY’, repeated 3 times."
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 487 posts, RR: 5 Reply 39, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4101 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21): Which, whenever I heard it, was always abbreviated to "Position and Hold". I used to love acknowledging a Position and Hold clearance when I was giving kids a ride in the Cessna for the first time It just sounded so cool...
I always abbreviated it to "To position". The controller never questioned whether I was going to hold or not. Now I just say line up and wait, which definitely lacks in the cool department.
I was told the reason it was changed was because some unfortunate pilot heard the instruction as "to position and go", which was not the right idea.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
xjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2345 posts, RR: 52 Reply 40, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4091 times:
Quoting jumbojim747 (Reply 37): What about hold outer marker?
Is it me or have they stopped using that one.
Love that outer marker, don't ya?
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 6): Here's one: I haven't heard ATC say to "Report the outer marker" for years. They now say to
report a fix usually identified by GPS. Maybe this is just a change in the US....not sure. Anybody reporting the marker any more?
Quoting Wilco737 (Reply 7): Quoting 26point2 (Reply 6):
Anybody reporting the marker any more?
You are right, haven't heard that for a long time. Most of the time it is 'report XXXXX' or 'repost 6 miles out', but the outer marker is dying out...
wilco737
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 8): Yes i agree with that havent heard that for a while.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 36 Reply 43, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3987 times:
I used to think that SCATANA was an unnecessary thing of the past .... until September 11, 2001.
I will never forget being over the Canadian prairies calmly sipping a coffee when Winnipeg ATC broadcast ...
"Attention, SCATANA is now in effect, I repeat, SCATANA is now if effect, all aircraft must last as soon as possible while the Department of Defence takes over control of North American airspace". I looked at the F/O, blinked, and asked "Did I really just hear that?"
For the record, SCATANA has since been replaced with ESCAT.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2312 posts, RR: 7 Reply 44, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3944 times:
Quoting BE77 (Reply 42): "Navigator next heading please", etc.
"Engineer say status of engines", etc.
"Stewardess please bring me a coffee"
Or "Climb Power!" to the Flight Engineer or First Officer.
C172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 979 posts, RR: 5 Reply 53, posted (5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3023 times:
Quoting longhauler (Reply 43): I used to think that SCATANA was an unnecessary thing of the past .... until September 11, 2001.
I will never forget being over the Canadian prairies calmly sipping a coffee when Winnipeg ATC broadcast ...
"Attention, SCATANA is now in effect, I repeat, SCATANA is now if effect, all aircraft must last as soon as possible while the Department of Defence takes over control of North American airspace". I looked at the F/O, blinked, and asked "Did I really just hear that?"
For the record, SCATANA has since been replaced with ESCAT.
That's a good one, I was supposed to go up for a flight that morning during my instructor rating. Everything happened before the flight, but the flight school got the fax indicating the SCATANA plan was in effect. I made a copy and have kept it as one for the personal history books.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 36 Reply 54, posted (5 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2951 times:
Quoting C172Akula (Reply 53): I made a copy and have kept it as one for the personal history books.
Great idea! I laminated and mounted the Data-link.
Our crew ... me, the F/O and three F/As still meet every year on September 11. It was an awful week to be away from home, that was made easier with company.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
Related excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the B-36:
Much more than other large aircraft powered by piston engines, the B-36 was very prone to engine fires, to the extent that some crews changed the phrase "six turning, four burning" into "two turning, two burning, two smoking, two joking, and two unaccounted for."
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2644 posts, RR: 2 Reply 59, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2718 times:
Quoting xjramper (Reply 36): Decimal in lieu of point. "Contact xxx approach now on 131 decimal 75."
Maybe in the US, but decimal is certainly used in other countries. Just head up to Canada and you will hear decimal instead of point. Just one of the many differences between US ATC and other nations around the world.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 61, posted (5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2017 times:
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 59): Maybe in the US, but decimal is certainly used in other countries. Just head up to Canada and you will hear decimal instead of point. Just one of the many differences between US ATC and other nations around the world.
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