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Were Any Patco ATCs On Duty At Boston Cen On 9/11?  
User currently offlinelenbrazil From Brazil, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Robin Hordon was a ATC from 1970 till he was fired with most of his PATCO co-workers in 1981. He spent all or part of his time at Boston Center he claims that he had “many friends and colleagues on duty that morning.”

I know many ATCs post here. How likely is this?

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinedinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1066 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

Not all PATCO ATC's were fired. Some chose to pass the picket lines. Also, I believe it was President Clinton allowed former PATCO Controllers to be rehired. So it is quite possible that the statement is true.


Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2307 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

There are probably a few former PATCO's working that were working that day. I work with a few to this day. I also know some PATCO people that didnt come back.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinelenbrazil From Brazil, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 2):
There are probably a few former PATCO's working that were working that day. I work with a few to this day. I also know some PATCO people that didnt come back.

I asked Colin Scoggins, the military specialist on duty that morning, about this on another forum he said:

"I can't think of one controller who worked with him that was still there on 9-11. Most of them had retired by then. I can say he did work prior to the strike in 1981, and he says he still knew controllers that were working that day. There may have been a few, but that 20 years later most controllers that were here prior to the strike were retired by then."

Based on what I read in Wikipedia there essentially three groups of pre-1981 ATC who worked afterwards.

1) those who crossed the picket lines
2) non unionized supervisors
3) fired strikers who were readmitted.

Groups 1) & 2) came out to about 13% of the workforce. I assume most fired strikers would considered the former and perhaps even the latter 'scabs' and that most of the latter would have retired by 2001. Are my assumptions correct? Of course there would be no reason for a PATCO ATC who went on to something else from being friends with members of the 3rd group who were working 20 years later.

Len


User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting lenbrazil (Reply 3):

I'd say there are some holes in your thinking. Sure those who were rehired were of retirement age but they weren't retirement eligible. They had missed 10+ years of work. It looks like Clinton allowed them to be rehired in 1993 but that doesn't mean they all started back in '93. I don't know what rules they fell under but currently you have to work for 20-25 years before you can retire. Now I don't know how things were in Boston, but I was hired by the FAA in 2005 and when I got to my facility there were 4 ex-patco rehires working there (out of about 15). The the first didn't retire for about 2-3 years the last retired this year.


User currently offlinelenbrazil From Brazil, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

Quoting jgarrido (Reply 4):
I'd say there are some holes in your thinking. Sure those who were rehired were of retirement age but they weren't retirement eligible. They had missed 10+ years of work. It looks like Clinton allowed them to be rehired in 1993 but that doesn't mean they all started back in '93. I don't know what rules they fell under but currently you have to work for 20-25 years before you can retire. Now I don't know how things were in Boston, but I was hired by the FAA in 2005 and when I got to my facility there were 4 ex-patco rehires working there (out of about 15). The the first didn't retire for about 2-3 years the last retired this year.


If you look at my post again you'll see I indicated I thought it likely some rehirees would still have been working on 9/11. Scoggins said he didn't know of any, perhaps the situation in Boston was different than in Guam. Also I assume that since controllers at 24/7 facilities work in shifts on average only about 1/4 or 1/5 of all ATCs would be on duty at any one time, though there would be a larger proportion on duty at peak times. So even if some PATCO guys were at still a Boston (that Scoggins didn't know or forgot about) they migh not have been working at the time.

The reason I'm asking about Hordon is that in 2006 he started supporting 9/11 conspiracy theories and implied, but (AFAIK) never said directly, that some of his buddies who were there backed them as well. To me it is NOT a coincidence that the only ATC to publicly back such theories had not been in a control
facility for many decades.

PS - According to a couple of sources SOME ex-PATCO guys started getting rehired in 1986.


User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting lenbrazil (Reply 3):
most of the latter would have retired by 2001. Are my assumptions correct?

That's all I was comenting on. In 2005 I worked with 4 rehires who did not retire for several years. Some may have got back in '86 but I doubt there were any significant numbers that soon. Let alone when Regan was still in office.


User currently offlinelenbrazil From Brazil, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting jgarrido (Reply 6):
Quoting lenbrazil (Reply 3): most of the latter would have retired by 2001. Are my assumptions correct?
That's all I was comenting on. In 2005 I worked with 4 rehires who did not retire for several years. Some may have got back in '86 but I doubt there were any significant numbers that soon. Let alone when Regan was still in office.

"The latter" reffered to ATCs who were "non unionized supervisors" when the strike began. My guess is that few of them were around 20 years later and the handful that were had moved up the ladder.

Nice pix BTW


User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2635 times:

Quoting lenbrazil (Reply 7):
"The latter" reffered to ATCs who were "non unionized supervisors"

Sorry I misread that the first time. FWIW I wasn't there, but “friends and colleagues" would is not be how I would expect a PATCO controller to describe non-union management types during that time of labor/management relations which lead to his firing.


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2307 posts, RR: 38
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

I work to this day with a former PATCO controller. He isnt eligible to retire for another 2 years I think. Alot werent re-hired in 1993 but all the way up to around 2000. I worked with a PATCO controller at IAH that retired about 2 years ago as well.

There arent many at the moment left in the agency, but 2011 was 11 years ago. There were alot of PATCO re-hires agency wide at that time. In my career I can think of 5 that I have worked with since 2006.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 9):
There were alot of PATCO re-hires agency wide at that time. In my career I can think of 5 that I have worked with since 2006.



I've worked with about 7 former PATCO folks since the late 90's to early 2000's.......they are all retired now.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinelenbrazil From Brazil, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

OK Hordon's story is plausible, Scoggins said he didn't know of any at Boston Center but there are apprently about 300 controllers there working in different sections and shifts so it's possible he might not have known some of the PATCO guys (if there were any still there).


As for Hordon's conspiracy claims and insinuation that other ATCs back them, do any of you believe something was amiss with the response from the FAA or NORAD. Or do you know any ATCs who think that is the case?

Here is some of his babble:
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Statement%20Hordon.html
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com...ordon-sabotages-april-gallops.html
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com...in-hordon-911-was-an-inside-job-2/


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