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 Boeing 737ng Flap Settings?
 Novice From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2012, 90 posts, RR: 0Posted Thu Dec 6 2012 15:18:46 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 17974 times:

 From what i know the Boeing 737ng has got 8 flap settings right? being; 1,2,5,10,15,25,30 and 40 does these numbers refer to degrees the angle its being reflected to the air at? if so why is there so little difference between 1,2 and 5 compared to the rest? Thanks
 BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 16737 posts, RR: 28 Reply 1, posted Thu Dec 6 2012 15:36:36 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 17964 times:

 Quoting Novice (Thread starter): does these numbers refer to degrees the angle its being reflected to the air at?

Only in a very broad sense that it approximates the angle of the main flap. Once you're getting into the more complicated slotted flap setups of today, it gets muddled quickly.

Airbus, and most other manufacturers as well I believe, simply number the positions 1, 2, 3, etc. and completely dispense with angles. McDonnell Douglas, on the other hand, actually did have the designation correspond closely to the flap angle, which was actually important on their aircraft with the dial-a-flap feature.

 Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12710 posts, RR: 78 Reply 2, posted Thu Dec 6 2012 18:11:43 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 17917 times:

 Quoting Novice (Thread starter):does these numbers refer to degrees the angle its being reflected to the air at?

No. Once upon a time, as BMI727 noted, they corresponded to the actual angle of physical things. That day is long past...now the numbers just stay what they are for commonality reasons.

 Quoting Novice (Thread starter):if so why is there so little difference between 1,2 and 5 compared to the rest?

1, 2, and 5 are takeoff settings. You don't want big deflections for takeoff because you don't want to drive drag up to high. For current Fowler flap designs, 1, 2, and 5 typically just push the slats out (improved stall AoA) and the slats back (not down), which increases area and hence lift.

Tom.

 wilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9320 posts, RR: 69 Reply 3, posted Thu Dec 6 2012 21:03:36 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17861 times:

 Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 2):

The 737NG is certified for flaps 15 and 25 take offs. As you said, it induced a lot of drag, but adds more lift for field length limited take offs where the terrain is no problem. I did a flaps 25 take off once on the 737-800, was interesting.

wilco737

 tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12710 posts, RR: 78 Reply 4, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 05:55:35 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17777 times:

 Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 2):For current Fowler flap designs, 1, 2, and 5 typically just push the slats out (improved stall AoA) and the slats back (not down), which increases area and hence lift.

That should have said the *flaps* back...

wilco737's abosolutely right about the deep flap takeoffs...you get even more lift by deflecting the flaps but you pay a big drag penalty to do it. If you have the runway/terrain combination for it to work it can be useful.

Tom.

 IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 21 Reply 5, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 06:45:35 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17765 times:

 Don't most 800/900 operators use Flaps 30 for landing when the runway allows to avoid high deck angles and tail strikes?
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 wilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9320 posts, RR: 69 Reply 6, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 09:25:33 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17726 times:

 Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 5):

Yes, we Used flaps 40 only when the runway was rather short. Most of the time we used flaps 30.

wilco737

 chrisjw From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 123 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 09:28:52 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17724 times:

 Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 5):Don't most 800/900 operators use Flaps 30 for landing when the runway allows to avoid high deck angles and tail strikes?

I believe CO (now UA) forbid flaps 40 landings on their -900ER's due to the increased tailstrike risk. They also don't do derated takeoffs on the 900ER

 BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 16737 posts, RR: 28 Reply 8, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 11:07:02 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 17697 times:

 Quoting wilco737 (Reply 6):Yes, we Used flaps 40 only when the runway was rather short. Most of the time we used flaps 30.

I think many early 737s had flaps 40 deactivated due to noise concerns.

 Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 barney captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1469 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 14:31:29 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17650 times:

 The option that WN took on our -800's delays full slat extension until Flaps 25, as opposed to the standard Flaps 10 position. This is apparently part of a short-field package offered by Boeing.
 Southeast Of Disorder
 Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 22844 posts, RR: 53 Reply 10, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 15:38:10 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 17625 times:

 Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):I think many early 737s had flaps 40 deactivated due to noise concerns.

That doesn't make a lot of sense - why deactivate them if you could just put an item in the ops manual that says "Flaps 40 shall only be used if necessary for performance considerations"? That why you can still use them, but the crews won't do so unless they have to.

-Mir

 7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2620 posts, RR: 25 Reply 11, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 18:39:34 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17586 times:

 Quoting Mir (Reply 10):That doesn't make a lot of sense - why deactivate them if you could just put an item in the ops manual that says "Flaps 40 shall only be used if necessary for performance considerations"? That why you can still use them, but the crews won't do so unless they have to.

That's exactly what they did though. That way crews can't accidentally select flap 40. But deactivating Flap 40 was simply a matter of blocking flap lever movement beyond the Flap 30 detent. Basically screwing a lump of metal into the pedestal.

 The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 Fabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1245 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted Fri Dec 7 2012 21:37:41 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17544 times:

 I am in no way to be held as knowledgeable, but it would not surprise me, if at some airports/countries, a "worst case" noise level was considered in some application. It would make sense then to disable Flaps 40. You would be essentially doing the same thing (for example) Ryanair is doing with lowering their MTOW on their 738s. Since many fees are made off of MTOW, they are saying "We know the airplane could do more, but we made it so it will not do more".
 The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 CM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted Sat Dec 8 2012 10:56:33 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 17451 times:

 737-700 & -800 flap handle detents correlate to flap deflection angles as follows: Detent......Angle 1...........8 degrees 2...........11 degrees 5...........14 degrees 10.........19 degrees 15.........22 degrees 25.........26 degrees 30.........35 degrees 40.........46 degrees The -900ER has the same detents, but I believe it has slightly different deflection angles than the -700 and -800.
 YYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1202 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted Sat Dec 8 2012 17:14:17 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 17382 times:

 The problem with flap 30 landings on the NG is it incorporates a 5-10kt increased speed bias in the VREF so you are flying your approach faster than you normally should to avoid tail strikes. Flaps 40 does not have this so you can fly your approach slower without that tailstrke risk.
 DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 barney captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1469 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted Sun Dec 9 2012 02:27:49 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17298 times:

 Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 14):The problem with flap 30 landings on the NG is it incorporates a 5-10kt increased speed bias in the VREF

I'm fairly certain that's only true for the 8/900 - the 6/700 have no increased REF speed bias.

 Southeast Of Disorder
 YYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1202 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted Sun Dec 9 2012 14:46:07 UTC (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 17211 times:

 Yes I believe you are correct sir. My mistake. Will have to go back to my FOM and re read it...
 DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
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